Tar-Palantir and the Valar

[Aule]

I have just reread the Silmarillion and i got to the part in the book where Tar-Palantir becomes king
Its said that he repented of his fathers sins and started honouring Eru again. He tried his best to to change the ways of his people who had become more like his brother.

Why did the valar forsake him and the faithful that remained ever friends of the Eldar and in awe of the Powers.

I know that they had tried to convice the Numenorians with messengers years before of why they cannot go to the undying lands, but since then they had given up.

This is how it always seems to be, whenever men make a mistake they are totally forsaken for the time.

Although i suppose this ws the best thing to do, the Valar couldn't force men to love them again, they couldn't force them to stop fighting wars for land in ME.

If the Vala weren't going to do anything, i wish that a messenger had at least told the king that things would eventually be alright, letting him at least die in peace instead of all upset.

And if they had interfered at this point and succeeded the great deeds of The war of the Ring would never have come to pass.

[Morwen Tindomerel]

As I understand it the crux of the problem was that while Tar-Palantir and a few followers had 'repented' and returned to the old ways the bulk of the Numenoreans did not. He could not turn the tide, and that wasn't the Valar's fault or anything they could help.

The 'fall' of the Numenoreans bears a strong resemblance to that of the Noldor. Both peoples became impatient of the tutelage of the Valar, as well they might. Neither Men nor Elves were made by Eru to be pets for the Valar removing both races from Middle Earth, their intended home and natural enviroment, though kindly meant was a very grave mistake.

The 'King's Men's' desire to resume the use of their own tongue and reconnect with their long lost kin in Middle Earth were essentially a healthy reaction against the cultural domination of the Valar and Eldar. Unfortunately a misguided desire for immortality got into the mix and poisoned the movement.

And it is likely that deep down many Men had never really forgiven the Valar for leaving their forefathers to the mercy of Morgoth all those centuries. Certainly that betrayal made it much easier for Men to distrust the Valar and believe they were lying to them about Aman being harmful to Mortals.

[Finwe]

I don't think that the Valar were angry at Tar-Palantir himself. It was those after him especially that angered them. After Tar-Palantir's death, his daughter Tar-Miriel took the throne, but she was forced to marry Tar-Calion, or Ar-Pharazon as we better know him. Ar-Pharazon proceeded to launch an assault on Valinor, which I think is reason enough to completely destroy Numenor. Besides, it wasn't the Valar that did it. They called upon Eru to do it.

[Morwen Tindomerel]

I agree the Valar weren't angry with the Numenoreans any more than they were angry with the Noldor, just hurt and bewildered and unable to understand why the Children were acting this way.

The standard story is that Tar-Miriel was 'forced' to marry her cousin and share her throne with him. But in HoME we find an alternate tradition. According to this account Miriel had always loved her cousin and gladly accepted him as her husband and co-ruler. It's even possible that their marriage was seen as a good thing, for all it's unconventionality, a way of mending the rift between King's Men and Faithful.

We must also remember that Ar-Pharazon was not always evil. Had in fact been a close friend of Amandil and Elendil at one time. The real Darkening of Numenor doesn't begin until Sauron enters the picture.

There's no question but the Numenorean's rebellious and resentful feelings towards the Valar made them easy prey for Sauron, just as the Noldor's sense of being smothered made them more inclined to listen to Melkor.

The Valar seem to have panicked a bit when Ar-Pharazon attacked. Anyway they turned the whole mess over to Eru who fixed things by changing the shape of the world and so removing Aman from Men's reach - for our own good as much as that of the Valar.

The destruction of Numenor was less a deliberate punishment than an inevitable result of this drastic action. Even Eru is bound to some extent by the natural laws he has laid down. The Downfall thus resulted directly from the Numenorean's own actions rather than being an arbitrary act on Eru's part.

[akhtene]

no theme may be played that hath not it's uttermost sourse in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. (Eru to Melkor)

It was Eru's initial design that Elves and men dwell in M-E. But the Valar took first most of elves and then the best of Men away from it. Well, the revolt of Feanor and the downfall of numenorians, apart from many grievances they caused, returned the best representatives of both races - the daring Noldor and the most educated and loyal of the race of Men - back to where they were intended to live. And those people / or their descendants contributed a lot to final defeat of Morgoth and Sauron.
The Music couldn't be edited.

[Aule]

Thanks a lot guys, that really helps me understand why it all happend.
Still feel very ad for Tar-Palatir, he never got to see the good that would occur

[Finwe]

That's true. I think that was the saddest part about his story. He was the only one of that line to truly repent of the Numenoreans' turning away from the Valar. His daughter of course wasn't anywhere as strong as her father.

[Morwen Tindomerel]

Or maybe not as repentent. I've been thinking about this and it really is hard to see how Ar-Pharazon could have 'forced' his cousin to marry him and share the throne.

She was the legitimate heir with a well established tradition of strong ruling queens behind her. As such she would have been able to claim the support not only of the Faithful but of many King's Men if she'd chosen to resist her cousin's demands.

Personally I'm inclined to accept the alternate tradition in HoME that Miriel had been in love with her cousin most of her life and willingly married him as soon as she was free to do so.

[Finwe]

Well, just because she had a long tradition of strong ruling queens behind her doesn't mean she herself was strong. It is a matter of personality.

[Morwen]

She was the legitimate heir with a well established tradition of strong ruling queens behind her.

Miriel was indeed her father's legitimate heir but I disagree with the idea that Numenor had any strong tradition of ruling queens.

Of the twenty five rulers of Numenor only three were Ruling Queens. Of the three, Tar-Vanimelde, the third and last, was queen in name only, leaving the actual ruling to her husband. The number of queens who had actually held the reins of power by the time Miriel was born stood at two, which seems hardly sufficient to found a tradition.

As such she would have been able to claim the support not only of the Faithful but of many King's Men if she'd chosen to resist her cousin's demands.

I don't see the above as a realistic proposition. The political climate after Tar-Palantir's death was hardly favourable to Miriel and that political climate had been long in the making.


Tar-Palantir's father, Ar-Gimilzor, is described as a great enemy of the Faithful and would have preferred to yield the sceptre to his like minded younger son rather than the rightful heir "if the laws had allowed". But because Gimilzor was somewhat less outrageous than his grandson, the future Ar-Pharazon, Tar-Palantir was able to ascend the throne.

His brother however became a thorn in his side.

"And Gimilkhad was strong and ungentle, and he took the leadership of those that had been called the King's Men and opposed the will of his brother as openly as he dared, and yet more in secret. Thus the days of Tar-Palantir became darkened with grief..." (my emphasis)

The Akallabeth

This fomenting of revolution is continued by Gimilkhad's son Pharazon after his father's death.

"For Pharazon son of Gimilkhad had become a man yet more restless and eager for wealth and power than his father. He had fared often abroad, as a leader in the wars that the Numenoreans made then in the coastlands of Middle-Earth, seeking to extend their dominion over Men; and thus he had won great renown as a captain both by land and by sea. Therefore when he came back to Numenor, hearing of his father's death, the hearts of the people were turned to him; for he brought with him great wealth, and for the time free in his giving."

Therefore when Tar Palantir eventually grew weary of grief and died, he left his daughter in precarious position.

1.Her father's actions (honouring Eru, tending the White Tree) would not have endeared him to the majority of the Numenoreans who we are told did not repent.

2. Her uncle and later cousin steadily worked to undermine Tar-Palantir and expand their own power base and Pharazon at the time of Tar-Palantir's death had managed to gain popular support and present himself as a leader and an alternative heir.

3.Even if the Faithful had supported Miriel, the Akallabeth indicates that this is a minority group in Numenor.

I therefore don't see that Miriel was in a position to oppose her cousin anymore than her grandmother Inzilbeth was in a position to oppose Ar-Gimilzor.