My theory on Santa's 'elves' - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Arwen1858 · 10-17-2003, 02:56 AM

I saw a preview for the movie 'Elf' today, and got to thinking about it. Now, we all know that Santa doesn't really have Elves, because Elves are tall, graceful, and completely unlike whatever it is that works for Santa. So, today I had this thought. Maybe Santa took a bunch of Hobbits, and has them working for him. They're short, have pointy ears... I can see them having the right personalities for the job. It would also explain why Santa needs people to leave him milk and cookies: the Hobbits eat all of his before he gets a chance!
Well, just thought I'd share my theory, and I'd love to hear what y'all think about it!
Arwen

dancing spawn of ungoliant · 10-17-2003, 05:23 AM

Nice theory [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
Personally I don't want to mix M-E and Santa 'cause the final result would probably be something that ruins both of them.

And actually, this problem with confusing elves/ the elves of Santa doesn't appear in Finnish due to they have their own words [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
In Finnish an elf from M-E is "haltia" and Santa's elf is "tonttu" (both of these words are pronaunced in the same way as one pronaunces elvish).

[ October 17, 2003: Message edited by: dancing spawn of ungoliant ]

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 10-17-2003, 10:00 AM

My parents always told me that Santa lives in Valinor, where there are, of course, no Hobbits.

So I'm sceptical of your theory Arwen. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Arwen1858 · 10-17-2003, 02:09 PM

Quote:

My parents always told me that Santa lives in Valinor, where there are, of course, no Hobbits.

My parents don't even know what Valinor is, so I've never heard that one! Anyways, what about Frodo, Sam and Bilbo? They were in Valinor, until they died. And just how did
Santa get to Valinor?

Quote:

And actually, this problem with confusing elves/ the elves of Santa doesn't appear in Finnish due to they have their own words

That's good! Too bad we can't have a different word for Santa's elves in English!

dancing spawn of ungoliant · 10-17-2003, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Too bad we can't have a different word for Santa's elves in English!

We could devise a whole new word to the elves of Santa. When I look from my dictionary it gives a word brownie for "tonttu" aka an elf of Santa. Another word is hobgoblin. So why couldn't you guys use these words? Oh well, maybe people haven't used to these words...it's a tradition to speak of Santa's elves.

[ October 17, 2003: Message edited by: dancing spawn of ungoliant ]

Tinuviel of Denton · 10-17-2003, 04:07 PM

My solution for the elves/the 'elves' of Santa is to call the Elves of ME or other real Elves by that name, and I call Santa's or Keebler's or any of those other stupid little things 'elfs' (which is actually the correct way to spell it, grammatically [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] ). I've given quite a few long, detailed lectures on the subject.

I think that Santa's elfs aren't smart enough to be Hobbits, by the way.

the phantom · 10-17-2003, 08:12 PM

Click below to see what some other people had to say about Santa's elves last year.
http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin...&f=17&t=000299

Arwen1858 · 10-17-2003, 10:51 PM

Thanks for that link, Phantom!! Well, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who's thought this [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Luthien_ Tinuviel · 10-19-2003, 07:53 PM

Don't you all know that there is no Santa?!?! There's only a Father Christmas, who actually does have elves working for him. You know, Ilbereth and all of his other elf-friends, and Paksu, and Valkotukka, and the North Polar Bear, and the goblins, and....... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

THE Ka · 10-19-2003, 08:04 PM

good theory... unfortunately the ka did not get to enjoy a childhood of knowing that santa did "exist" becuase when i was 5 i came out into the livingroom on my way to the bathroom where there, i saw, my mom and dad puting all the presents under the tree... in later years i saw my dad eating the cookies and drinking the milk "intended" for santa... if your theory is correct, then my dad's a hobbit! AHH! No! well, that's my story. hope you enjoyed. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

"yes, a brat prince" - annr rice

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 10-24-2003, 05:02 PM

Please Arwen, I'm pretty sure Frodo, Sam and Bilbo never made it to Valinor, rather to Eressea.

And Santa would have got to Valinor by means of a reindeer-pulled airbourne sled of course!

Novlamothien · 10-24-2003, 05:18 PM

You are all wrong, though some of you are close. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
This is what really happened.
Gandalf, seeing that the hobbits were being threatened by the spread of mankind, took them to the north pole, where it really is green and pretty, so they could be happy and make toys. It only takes a whole year because the Hobbits take so many meal breaks and holidays. unfortunatly, when people saw them, they mistakened them for elves, on account of the pointy ears. The Hobbits let this mistake continue, deeming it wise for their true identity to never come out. But then, one year JRR Tolkein caught one and had it tell him a story,which was some of the Lost Tales, and each year he heared a small bit more, which is why it took him his whole life to write about ME.

Problem solved, end of arguement. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Namarie

Silmarien · 10-24-2003, 09:54 PM

I think that's the best theory, Novlamothien. But I'd say that not all of them make toys. The rest still farm and grow pipeweed and Father Christmas which is the form Gandalf took on after he got back from helping save Middle Earth.

Novlamothien · 10-25-2003, 09:36 AM

Right, that makes sense. After all, somebody has to produce all the food those hungry hobbits eat.

Namarie

Arwen1858 · 10-25-2003, 11:21 AM

Good theory, Novlamothien! I really like that one.
Just a thought, but could Tom Bombadil be Father Christmas? Just wondered.
Arwen

Horse-Maiden of the Shire · 10-25-2003, 11:30 AM

It WOULD make sense, Bombadil being Father Christmas. He's fat, he's jolly, and he eats a lot. "Where are his reindeer, then?" you inquire? Why, Old Man Willow caught hold of them and poor old Tom didn't get there fast enough...

Silmarien · 10-27-2003, 04:18 AM

Yes I think you're right Tom makes much more sense than Gandalf. I can just see him popping up and down down chimneys and it also fits with the enigma he is every house in the world in one night. Ho ho ho Tom Bombadil.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 10-27-2003, 08:40 AM

Maybe human beings are just a lot bigger these days, so much so that we dwarf the Elves. It begs the question, just how small are Hobbits really?

Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1 · 10-27-2003, 08:53 AM

3ft something, aren't they?
Hmmm...so, if Tom Bombadil is Father Christmas, what exactly is Gandalf??????
And Goldberry must have aged a bit then...

But an excellent theory. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Maikadurwen · 10-29-2003, 04:38 PM

i have a great word for santas "ELVES"
GNOMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

Morgul Queen · 10-30-2003, 01:26 AM

No, I don't think so. Early on JRRT refers to the Noldor as Gnomes.....hang on a mintick...hmmmmm *Mq gets THAT evil glint in her eye, the type that only comes after centuries of practice*...maybe...that could work....(heh heh, I can hear you all going 'GET ON WITH IT!!!!' Scene 24 style. Don't think I can't).

Anyway, Morgoth enslaved some of the Noldor in his mines because of their skill with crafts. So maybe Santa is really Morgoth in disguise, which means he's really trying to seduce us all into following him by giving us gifts....rather like Sauron with the Rings.... and He's using the enslaved Noldor to do it.... [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] oh, sweet Lady Elbereth (NO!! NOT you *Varda* [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] ) save us from....hang on again...maybe if we ask Him nicely, He'll give us Elves in Tight Leather for christmas!!!!!

^
/|\
|
|
|

That makes no sense what-so-ever, does it!!?

Arwen1858 · 10-30-2003, 01:42 AM

It makes sense to me. Oh, and I like what you put as your location [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I have to be really careful when I'm on my computer, becuase if I come across any fangirls, or read any bad fanfic, Asfoloth goes wild and tries to smash in my computer screen!!
ok, back on topic [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
So, is is Santa the evil Morgoth?? Or Tom Bombadil?? Did y'all see that they're going to have a 1 minute RotK trailer before the movie 'Elf?' Maybe PJ wanted that so people would see real elves in the trailer, and wouldn't be misled by the ones in the movie... It looks like a good movie, but it would drive me crazy, I think, watching it because those can't really be elves!!! I know... they're hobbits who, like Sam, were really interested in the Elves, so when they started helping Santa, they decided to call themselves Elves because they knew most people wouldn't know the difference. Just like I say that I'm an elf sometimes, maybe their wishful thinking led them to say that, because noone had heard of a hobbit.
This all might sound rather silly, and not make too much sense, but it's really late and my brain is starting to shut down on me.
Arwen

Luthien_ Tinuviel · 11-02-2003, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Maybe PJ wanted that so people would see real elves in the trailer, and wouldn't be misled by the ones in the movie...

One would hope so.... But this "Santa" person can't be the real thing. It must be a corrupted nickname, because what self-respecting maia, as our multiple theories seem to think he is, would give himself such a weird and childish name? This could only mean one thing.... it's Saruman!. Think about it. It works. Saruman becomes Sharku becomes Sharkey becomes Santa. He's obsessed with the letter S or something. He has this conspiracy thing going with all the parents to keep children behaving, and maybe we're all even working to accomplish his evil plans without our knowledge. And our reward... presents. He's in charge of the toy industry. He owns all of the companies which produce holiday-related items. It could happen- it has happened!

Mantauriel · 11-02-2003, 08:17 PM

That's funny! Hobbits? I think Santa may use hobbits. Unless, Elrond sells Elves, and the cold makes them shrivel up and shrink... like prunes? I wonder if Elrond wears a tupee while selling them... *shudders* [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Kates Frodo Temp · 11-06-2003, 03:36 PM

Ya know, there's a solid historical explaination for the popular image of certain magical beings turning from "elf" to "brownie". I'd explain it to you, but I can tell from the cyber-stares I'm getting that this is not a serious thread open to historical fact. PM me if you want to hear the truth, though. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Kate's

10-17-2003, 02:56 AM	#1
Arwen1858 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Gondor Posts: 516	My theory on Santa's 'elves' I saw a preview for the movie 'Elf' today, and got to thinking about it. Now, we all know that Santa doesn't really have Elves, because Elves are tall, graceful, and completely unlike whatever it is that works for Santa. So, today I had this thought. Maybe Santa took a bunch of Hobbits, and has them working for him. They're short, have pointy ears... I can see them having the right personalities for the job. It would also explain why Santa needs people to leave him milk and cookies: the Hobbits eat all of his before he gets a chance! Well, just thought I'd share my theory, and I'd love to hear what y'all think about it! Arwen __________________ Will Turner: "This is either madness or brilliance." Jack Sparrow: "It's remarkable how often those two traits coincide." ~ Pirates of the Caribbean

10-17-2003, 05:23 AM	#2
dancing spawn of ungoliant Mischievous Candle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: So near to Russia, so far from Japan, quite a long way from Cairo, lots of miles from Vietnam. Posts: 1,234	Nice theory [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Personally I don't want to mix M-E and Santa 'cause the final result would probably be something that ruins both of them. And actually, this problem with confusing elves/ the elves of Santa doesn't appear in Finnish due to they have their own words [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] In Finnish an elf from M-E is "haltia" and Santa's elf is "tonttu" (both of these words are pronaunced in the same way as one pronaunces elvish). [ October 17, 2003: Message edited by: dancing spawn of ungoliant ] __________________ Fenris Wolf

10-17-2003, 10:00 AM	#3
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	My parents always told me that Santa lives in Valinor, where there are, of course, no Hobbits. So I'm sceptical of your theory Arwen. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

10-17-2003, 08:12 PM	#7
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	Click below to see what some other people had to say about Santa's elves last year. http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin...&f=17&t=000299 __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

10-17-2003, 10:51 PM	#8
Arwen1858 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Gondor Posts: 516	Thanks for that link, Phantom!! Well, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who's thought this [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Will Turner: "This is either madness or brilliance." Jack Sparrow: "It's remarkable how often those two traits coincide." ~ Pirates of the Caribbean

10-17-2003, 04:07 PM	#6
Tinuviel of Denton Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Amid the hills and dales of the Shire... or not. Posts: 579	My solution for the elves/the 'elves' of Santa is to call the Elves of ME or other real Elves by that name, and I call Santa's or Keebler's or any of those other stupid little things 'elfs' (which is actually the correct way to spell it, grammatically [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] ). I've given quite a few long, detailed lectures on the subject. I think that Santa's elfs aren't smart enough to be Hobbits, by the way.

10-19-2003, 07:53 PM	#9
Luthien_ Tinuviel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2002 Location: A very lovely tree-hut in the Chunnel. Posts: 804	Don't you all know that there is no Santa?!?! There's only a Father Christmas, who actually does have elves working for him. You know, Ilbereth and all of his other elf-friends, and Paksu, and Valkotukka, and the North Polar Bear, and the goblins, and....... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] __________________ I am a nineteen-year-old nomad photographer who owns a lemonade stand. You know what? I love Mip.

10-19-2003, 08:04 PM	#10
THE Ka Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: As with the flygja Posts: 1,403	good theory... unfortunately the ka did not get to enjoy a childhood of knowing that santa did "exist" becuase when i was 5 i came out into the livingroom on my way to the bathroom where there, i saw, my mom and dad puting all the presents under the tree... in later years i saw my dad eating the cookies and drinking the milk "intended" for santa... if your theory is correct, then my dad's a hobbit! AHH! No! well, that's my story. hope you enjoyed. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] "yes, a brat prince" - annr rice __________________ Vinur, vinur skilur tú meg? Veitst tú ongan loyniveg? Hevur tú reikað líka sum eg, í endaleysu tokuni?

10-24-2003, 05:02 PM	#11
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Please Arwen, I'm pretty sure Frodo, Sam and Bilbo never made it to Valinor, rather to Eressea. And Santa would have got to Valinor by means of a reindeer-pulled airbourne sled of course! __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

10-24-2003, 05:18 PM	#12
Novlamothien Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: A white, wintry wonderland-in the South!! Posts: 75	You are all wrong, though some of you are close. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] This is what really happened. Gandalf, seeing that the hobbits were being threatened by the spread of mankind, took them to the north pole, where it really is green and pretty, so they could be happy and make toys. It only takes a whole year because the Hobbits take so many meal breaks and holidays. unfortunatly, when people saw them, they mistakened them for elves, on account of the pointy ears. The Hobbits let this mistake continue, deeming it wise for their true identity to never come out. But then, one year JRR Tolkein caught one and had it tell him a story,which was some of the Lost Tales, and each year he heared a small bit more, which is why it took him his whole life to write about ME. Problem solved, end of arguement. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Namarie __________________ "He said if I had the cheek to make verses about Earendil in the house of Elrond that was my affair." ~Bilbo~

10-24-2003, 09:54 PM	#13
Silmarien Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lost but Found Posts: 199	I think that's the best theory, Novlamothien. But I'd say that not all of them make toys. The rest still farm and grow pipeweed and Father Christmas which is the form Gandalf took on after he got back from helping save Middle Earth. __________________ Though here at journeys end I lie in dakness buried deep, beyond all towers strong and high beyond all mountains steep, above all shadows rides the Sun and Stars forever dwell:I will not say the Day is done nor bid the Stars farewell!

10-25-2003, 09:36 AM	#14
Novlamothien Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: A white, wintry wonderland-in the South!! Posts: 75	Right, that makes sense. After all, somebody has to produce all the food those hungry hobbits eat. Namarie __________________ "He said if I had the cheek to make verses about Earendil in the house of Elrond that was my affair." ~Bilbo~

10-25-2003, 11:21 AM	#15
Arwen1858 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Gondor Posts: 516	Good theory, Novlamothien! I really like that one. Just a thought, but could Tom Bombadil be Father Christmas? Just wondered. Arwen __________________ Will Turner: "This is either madness or brilliance." Jack Sparrow: "It's remarkable how often those two traits coincide." ~ Pirates of the Caribbean

10-25-2003, 11:30 AM	#16
Horse-Maiden of the Shire Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Chillaxin' with Glorfindel-441 miles on the RtR Posts: 1,197	It WOULD make sense, Bombadil being Father Christmas. He's fat, he's jolly, and he eats a lot. "Where are his reindeer, then?" you inquire? Why, Old Man Willow caught hold of them and poor old Tom didn't get there fast enough... __________________ "There's a big...machine in the sky...some kind of electric snake...coming straight at us." "Shoot it," said my attorney. "Not yet...I want to study its habits."

10-27-2003, 04:18 AM	#17
Silmarien Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lost but Found Posts: 199	Yes I think you're right Tom makes much more sense than Gandalf. I can just see him popping up and down down chimneys and it also fits with the enigma he is every house in the world in one night. Ho ho ho Tom Bombadil. __________________ Though here at journeys end I lie in dakness buried deep, beyond all towers strong and high beyond all mountains steep, above all shadows rides the Sun and Stars forever dwell:I will not say the Day is done nor bid the Stars farewell!

10-27-2003, 08:40 AM	#18
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Maybe human beings are just a lot bigger these days, so much so that we dwarf the Elves. It begs the question, just how small are Hobbits really? __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

10-27-2003, 08:53 AM	#19
Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1 Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Up a tree somewhere in Caras Galadhon...or England Posts: 364	3ft something, aren't they? Hmmm...so, if Tom Bombadil is Father Christmas, what exactly is Gandalf?????? And Goldberry must have aged a bit then... But an excellent theory. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ '"Forweg can lead you no longer; for he is dead...I slew him...I will govern this fellowship now, or leave it." "As it was when he joined us, so it is again. He kills to make room."'

10-29-2003, 04:38 PM	#20
Maikadurwen Wight Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Beyound the mountains Posts: 115	i have a great word for santas "ELVES" GNOMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] __________________ Fantastic!

10-30-2003, 01:26 AM	#21
Morgul Queen Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dontgonearthe Castle Posts: 414	No, I don't think so. Early on JRRT refers to the Noldor as Gnomes.....hang on a mintick...hmmmmm Mq gets THAT evil glint in her eye, the type that only comes after centuries of practice...maybe...that could work....(heh heh, I can hear you all going 'GET ON WITH IT!!!!' Scene 24 style. Don't think I can't). Anyway, Morgoth enslaved some of the Noldor in his mines because of their skill with crafts. So maybe Santa is really Morgoth in disguise, which means he's really trying to seduce us all into following him by giving us gifts....rather like Sauron with the Rings.... and He's using the enslaved Noldor to do it.... [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] oh, sweet Lady Elbereth (NO!! NOT you Varda [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] ) save us from....hang on again...maybe if we ask Him nicely, He'll give us Elves in Tight Leather for christmas!!!!! ^ /\|\ \| \| \| That makes no sense what-so-ever, does it!!? __________________ Athrabeth is still doing the wave for Boromir the Disco-King Oh...and call me Morgy!

10-30-2003, 01:42 AM	#22
Arwen1858 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Gondor Posts: 516	It makes sense to me. Oh, and I like what you put as your location [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I have to be really careful when I'm on my computer, becuase if I come across any fangirls, or read any bad fanfic, Asfoloth goes wild and tries to smash in my computer screen!! ok, back on topic [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] So, is is Santa the evil Morgoth?? Or Tom Bombadil?? Did y'all see that they're going to have a 1 minute RotK trailer before the movie 'Elf?' Maybe PJ wanted that so people would see real elves in the trailer, and wouldn't be misled by the ones in the movie... It looks like a good movie, but it would drive me crazy, I think, watching it because those can't really be elves!!! I know... they're hobbits who, like Sam, were really interested in the Elves, so when they started helping Santa, they decided to call themselves Elves because they knew most people wouldn't know the difference. Just like I say that I'm an elf sometimes, maybe their wishful thinking led them to say that, because noone had heard of a hobbit. This all might sound rather silly, and not make too much sense, but it's really late and my brain is starting to shut down on me. Arwen __________________ Will Turner: "This is either madness or brilliance." Jack Sparrow: "It's remarkable how often those two traits coincide." ~ Pirates of the Caribbean

11-02-2003, 08:17 PM	#24
Mantauriel Newly Deceased Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: USA Posts: 10	That's funny! Hobbits? I think Santa may use hobbits. Unless, Elrond sells Elves, and the cold makes them shrivel up and shrink... like prunes? I wonder if Elrond wears a tupee while selling them... shudders [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Elladan and Elrohir stared at Rumil, Haldir, and Orophin before them. Legolas had a blank stare to all. "See the creature? Ready to kill us?" Figwit sighed and Aragorn pointed to the object Legolas was reffering to. "That's a rock."

11-06-2003, 03:36 PM	#25
Kates Frodo Temp Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: The Vale, Ancartia Posts: 112	Ya know, there's a solid historical explaination for the popular image of certain magical beings turning from "elf" to "brownie". I'd explain it to you, but I can tell from the cyber-stares I'm getting that this is not a serious thread open to historical fact. PM me if you want to hear the truth, though. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Kate's __________________ I yessessë Eru ontanë Menel ar Cemen. Genesis 1:1 Sign my lighter, Meela?