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#1 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
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This is one of the most fascinating stories written by Tolkien! It is a wonderful character study of the two title persons, as well as a deep look at a marriage that went awry.
To understand it, I think it is important to know at what time of his life Tolkien wrote the tale. Hammond and Scull date it around 1960, so the author was in his late 60s by then, and retired from teaching at the university. He had experienced his own marriage, which according to Carpenter's biography was not always blissful, and presumably seen enough of others to be realistic. That contrasts sharply with the romanticism of his youthful writing. Those readers who considered him sexist for neglecting female roles in his published works (Hobbit and LotR, mostly) see a very insightful and sympathetic depiction of a woman's soul in his description of Erendis. However, he does not take sides with either character, and we come to understand Aldarion's reasons for his actions as well. No black or white in this story, just lots of shades of grey! I think the author is at the very best of his abilities at this time and in this account. Shippey compares the tale to that of Njorthr and Skathi in the Prose Edda as well as to a Breton lay by Marie de France. I'm not familiar with either, but perhaps someone else is and can add insight on that thought. We see how a conflict carries on from one generation to the next, paving the way for later tragedy. We also get a glimpse of what was happening in Middle-earth at the time and how the characters' actions affected the events of LotR. I look forward to reading your thoughts on this chapter!
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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#2 |
Dead Serious
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I was diligently rereading yesterday and the thing that struck me more than anything else was Christopher Tolkien's editorial hand. To be clear, I don't mean this in a bad way; I simply mean that, more so than "Of Tuor" and the Narn, this tale needed editing to be presentable, and we're able to see it here.
The reason this fascinates me is because Christopher Tolkien takes quite a different tack in Unfinished Tales than he will later in the HoME. In the second "half" of "Aldarion and Erendis," after the completed narrative has ended, his account of where the story could have gone, based on his father's notes, is a lot more "in-world" voice. I enjoyed this approach, but it is a lot closer to his father's Appendices than his own work later. If "Aldarion and Erendis" had appeared in the HoME, we wouldn't have had a narrative account of where the story would have gone; we would probably have been given each of the outlines (barring any substantial repetitions) with some clearly distinguished commentary. While the latter is more useful, perhaps, to scholars, I'm not sure which approach I actually prefer... EDIT: Since the ball still seems to be in my corner, I'll add the other thoughts that occurred to me since the above: Time. Years are frittered away willy-nilly in "Aldarion and Erendis." Part of this is due, no doubt, to the "annalistic" style out of which it was composed (cf. Christopher Tolkien's introduction to Unfinished Tales, if I remember the place right), and it is no doubt worth considering that Tolkien had to move things along YEARS at a time, simply to accommodate the 400 years of Tar-Aldarion's life, which were already established in the LotR Appendices. Obviously, if the action of a normal human lifetime were accomplished in the normal number of human years, the story would be over before Aldarion was even proclaimed King's Heir. Nonetheless, the references to "normal" timeframes for the Númenóreans is fascinating: King's Heir at 100, 3 years for a betrothal, majority at 25. These are the sorts of logistical things that come up when you invent a race of people who live a few times longer than normal humans and it's interesting to watch Tolkien work at some of it in the course of the text. The other thing that occurred to me is nomenclature--an always important thing for Tolkien scholars to take note of. Meneldur, Aldarion, and Ancalimë all become "the King's Heir of Númenor." Although I think the word prince/princess is used in the text (I am most dangerously not referring to it as I add this edit), I believe it is used more as a descriptor than as a title. Certainly, there is no "Crown Prince" of Númenor. This is interesting, because there ARE princes in the later Númenórean realms of Gondor and Arnor, all of whom are Princes-regnant: Prince of Dol-Amroth, Prince of Cardolan, Prince of Ithilien. Tolkien seems to shy away from the use of "prince" to denote the sons of princes (the sense in which "prince" is used of any monarch). On similar lines, what is the precise status of the "Lords" of Andúnië? Or of the other preeminent descendents of Elros, such as Hallatan of Hyarnastorni? Tolkien never uses "duke" or "earl" or "baron" in Middle-earth--well, earl comes closes with "Eorl" (a proper name, mind you), but he is of Rohan, not Gondor. All we have are lords. Obviously, Númenor is not feudal--does this nomenclature simply reflect that?
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
Last edited by Formendacil; 02-13-2012 at 02:56 PM. Reason: Thought of things to add... |
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#3 | |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,492
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I can't comment much on this, I'm afraid, since I've read the story quite a while ago and do not have UT with me anymore to refresh my memory. But I'll say this about the ending: between Uinen and Erendis, the former clearly had the upper hand. If I remember correctly, Erendis threw herself into the Sea (right?), so she accepts her utter loss. For me this is the absolute best moment in the whole story, when the proud Erendis, lonely, rejected, and forgotten, admits her defeat - which makes her loss all the more bitter. I suppose Aldarion isn't in a better position, as Ancalime does not continue his work, and all that he had accomplished at the Sea was thrown away, until generations later when Numenorians begun redeveloping their seamanship.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#4 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: As my whimsey takes me.
Posts: 43
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Aldarion and Erendis! A pair of lovers doomed to never be happy. In that it rather reminds me of Tristan and Isolde. Although here, rather than being kept apart, these two can't seem to stay together. They want to be together and yet they are afraid to and they are afraid in being together they will have to surrender what they love.
I love the tale of Aldarion and Erendis, despite it's sadness. Back when I first read it, a friend and I were discussing which one of them was at fault. I decided they were both at fault. Aldarion could have not run off to sea for years at a time, flagrantly rebelled against his father, or chopped down trees in the sight of Erendis when he knew it pained her. But then, he was plagued by sea-longing, so he may have been fated to fail from the beginning. Erendis, on the other hand, could have tried harder to be interested in the things that pleased Aldarion rather than stomping off every time he did something she did not approve of. Relationships work best when both parties at least attempt to be interested in what the other person enjoys. Neither Aldarion nor Erendis did this. They just went along their happy way and it was just too bad if the other one didn't like it. Also, Erendis' almost pathological fear of the sea is a bit silly. What did the sea ever do to her? Especially considering the Valar protected the ships of the Numenoreans. She could have tried harder to love Aldarion and the things he loved rather than loving "herself with Numenor as a setting". Which she very much did. While I think Aldarion loved the sea more than Erendis, Erendis loved herself more than Aldarion and more than she claimed to love Numenor. The most poignant thing to me, was when the tale described how Aldarion was following Erendis around Numenor and tending to the land and planting trees was the time he had been most content. And that he did not realize how happy he was then until many years later when he was old and looking back on his life.
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"One equal temper of heroic hearts,Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will. To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. " Tennyson, Ulysses |
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#5 | ||
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,492
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It's hard to explain. I guess that I love tragic heroes of any literary work too much to blame them for anything. ![]() Quote:
EDIT: That made me think of something. The Numenorians had a custom that before a ship leaves a woman has to place a bough of a certain tree (which one was it? Can't remember) on the prow. But one of Aldarion's branches froze during his voyages - and I believe it was the one given to him by Erendis? If so, it's your perfect symbolism of their relationship - frozen before it could reach it's potential. Also, when Aldarion becomes king he puts an eagle on his ship and gets rid of this tradition. Does he prefer dead wood that would remain as it is to living, that can grow or die? Could that also reflect how he was afraid of what changes could happen with his relationship with Erendis, and preffered none to a compromise? This tale is full to the brim of these traditions that have such deep meaning when put into this context!
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 02-13-2012 at 08:47 PM. |
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#6 |
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,093
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I reread UT two years ago, and I remember the story of Aldarion and Erendis provoked a myriad of thoughts and I'm now leafing through it and trying to remember.
In a way, I like the story of Aldarion and Erendis. It's very different from other stuff Tolkien wrote, and it shows clearly his potential as a writer of complicated relationships, something that is not so much in the spotlight in his main works. I'm kind of sad it was left unfinished - I would have liked to hear more about what happened! Aldarion and Erendis are sad characters, and I can't like them, but I can't really dislike them either. In the beginning my sympathies are on Erenbdis's side, but in the end more on Aldarion's. It is quite tricky to take sides in this story. There's one thing that bothers me in all the stuff about Númenór. As a woman who loves the sea, I find it annoying most of the women hate or dislike it, or at best they have no feelings towards it. It's difficult to say why exactly it's so annoying. Maybe because it kind of restricts women to their homes and gardens and makes it seem none of them ever felt any longing to be elsewhere, to see the world, to be free. I can't help feeling Aldarion and Erendis would have been happier if they hadn't married after all, and it's a very sad conclusion to make from a love story. The story of Aldarion and Erendis is, for me, a lot about the sacrifices you make for love, and whether they are worth it in the end or not. I'm also wondering if what happens in the end could be called a divorce, and if any kind of divorce existed in Númenór or Middle-Earth.
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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#7 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Henneth Annûn, Ithilien
Posts: 462
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I suppose this is true, but he did seem to value her [Ancalimë's] independence and not want to take that away from her. Although it seems that while his father [Meneldur] thought he was the right man for the moment to be dealing with the issues Gil-galad had wrote to him about, apparently he was too early or late. I guess that they were at that time probably not strong enough to deal with Sauron? I'm not so sure.
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"For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously!" - G.S.; F. Nietzsche |
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#8 | ||
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#9 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Henneth Annûn, Ithilien
Posts: 462
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It was this new law which Arvedui invoked when he tried to reclaim the high kingship. "Moreover, in Númenor of old the sceptre descended to the eldest child of the king, whether man or woman." [RotK, p. 371] So that instead of looking for the closest man of male descent, someone like Valandil [Meneldur's nephew from his sister] rather than Malantur [Meneldur's cousin who was Elendil's brother's grandson] could be Meneldur's successor. Just as Soronto had a case to be King even though he came from the female line, as his mom was Aldarion's sister.
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"For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously!" - G.S.; F. Nietzsche |
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#10 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Henneth Annûn, Ithilien
Posts: 462
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"Númenor was to be a rest after war. But if they are weary of rest and the plays of peace, soon they will go back to their great play, manslaying and war." [UT, p. 217]
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"For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously!" - G.S.; F. Nietzsche |
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#11 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Henneth Annûn, Ithilien
Posts: 462
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The only other thing I can remember about Men of the Line of Elros besides the Kings, were in Erendis' tirade against men. She claimed that the high men, "are neither one or the other" that is, neither Man nor Elf and that they "dally in the world" and "turn great matters into play" [UT, p. 216] and vice-versa. Another interesting thing she mentioned that reminds me of one of the last (or remaining few) of the High Men of the 3rd Age was when she mentioned, "They would be craftsmen and loremasters and heroes all at once;" [p. 216] which is almost exactly like one of the Gondorians described Faramir to be.
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"For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously!" - G.S.; F. Nietzsche |
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