Valar and Maia abilities?

[Paradus]

Greetings everyone.

My knowledge on the maia and valar is a little hazy but from what I know they are immortal, have divine powers and abilities but can't create, only Eru can.

Know I'm curious what kind of powers could they have?

-The Istari, though restricted when sent to middle-earth had divine powers
I.e, gandalf's fire and light, saruman's voice, Radagast's communication of beasts and the like.

-Ulmo had power over the sea I know that.

-Melkor threw discord and mockery on Eru's creations, i.e orcs, balrogs, trolls etc.

-The valar gave additional life to the numenorians.

What other powers could the maia and valar have I wonder?

-Powers i.e: Healing, Lightning summon, enhanced physical strength and speed, earth shattering, telekinesis, flight, continental shifting, cursing, necromancy etc.

cheers.

[Galadriel55]

Well, each one has his/her own specific abilities, in addition to the power that they all posess. For example, Este can heal from weariness, Vana makes flowers bloom by looking at them (or mybe she doesn't make them, they just do.... I dunno).

Originally Posted by Paradus

...but can't create, only Eru can.

I'd say yes but also no. Eru is the ultimate source of creation, but the Valar made Arda. It's possible that Eru created al material, and the Valar just "made it tidy", but it's also possible that for that time period, they could actually create something out of the Imperishable Flame. I don't know. Maybe not. I'm too confused myself to answer properly.



Generally, though, they have the same power as Eruhini, except magnified. In a way, they are Eruhini's older siblings. They are superhuman only to a small extent.

[Blind Guardian]

They can create: Yavanna created all the plants and animals.

Far as I am sure, Melkor threw discord over the Music. The orcs are twisted elves. Balrogs and Dragons were also created by Yavanna I think.

The Istari are Maia.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Blind Guardian

Balrogs and Dragons were also created by Yavanna I think.

I'm not sure about dragons, but Balrogs are maiar that Melkor corrupted.

Interesting point about dragons - who created them? Glaurung is called the father of dragons, and he didn't appear until Dagor Aglareb, if I'm not mistaken. But Morgoth coudn't have created him. Maybe he crossed a balrog with a lizzard and magnified the result a few times.

I wonder why/how/*I can't find the right word* did Eru give animals the ability to think and move on their own, just like Eruhini (except on a lesser scale)?

[Formendacil]

I think the whole question has a bit too much of a superhero/comic book presumption to it... Speaking of "powers" in the plural sense, and then the list of "Powers i.e: Healing, Lightning summon, enhanced physical strength and speed, earth shattering, telekinesis, flight, continental shifting, cursing, necromancy etc.," while probably not intended to put me in such a mindset has me picturing Oromë as SuperElf, and Valinor as Gothamirë City, Home of the Doom of the Valar's Justice League...

It's a bit of a nitpicky point, but I think it's a pivotal little point: the Ainur (Valar and Maiar) are not super-powered aliens from planet Arda, but they are gods. Even with the Ainulindalë ever present to remind us of the monotheism behind the Valar, the fact is that the Valar are patterned on the pantheons of pagan gods. In this light, I think that a comparison to the power of the Greek or Norse gods is applicable--"power", I would say, not "powers."

After all, it's not that Gandalf has high scores in fireball casting, medium scores in understanding animal languages and telepathy, and poor-to-no levels of healer magic. On the contrary, Gandalf is, simply, powerful, with an affinity for things involving fire. The reason, I think why it is so hard to get a fix on exactly what he can do as a wizard is because his magic isn't supposed to be a set of specific powers, but because he is ultimately a semi-divine being.

Of course, the Istari are a special case, and as Maiar incarnated in human bodies, they come a lot closer to "super-powered humans" than the Valar do.

[Galadriel55]

Good point, Formy! I was thinking along similar lines about the "powers vs power", as you put it, but didn't know how to express it.

[Bauglir]

I've always found it interesting how Tolkien's use of "power" and "magic" are pretty vaguely described in most of Tolkien's works.

That being said, I think it's a lot easier to frame the power of the Valar and Maiar as a more innate kind of magic, as opposed to prescribing the abilities of the two groups to a set of defined skills.

Just my two cents, Cheers!

[Ivriniel]

Originally Posted by Paradus

Greetings everyone.

My knowledge on the maia and valar is a little hazy but from what I know they are immortal, have divine powers and abilities but can't create, only Eru can.

Know I'm curious what kind of powers could they have?

-The Istari, though restricted when sent to middle-earth had divine powers
I.e, gandalf's fire and light, saruman's voice, Radagast's communication of beasts and the like.

-Ulmo had power over the sea I know that.

-Melkor threw discord and mockery on Eru's creations, i.e orcs, balrogs, trolls etc.

-The valar gave additional life to the numenorians.

What other powers could the maia and valar have I wonder?

-Powers i.e: Healing, Lightning summon, enhanced physical strength and speed, earth shattering, telekinesis, flight, continental shifting, cursing, necromancy etc.

cheers.

I like this thread.

It's tempting to get concrete when thinking about the Powers. I think all the ideas put down are well within their purview, but as Makers of Arda, they manifested much more. The creation of matter--minerals, elements and so on, but then of Life. Yavanna with the Kelvar and the Olvar.

Though, another theme in the mythology is the feats of a lifetime, as one-off manifestations of their 'wyrd'. Feanor and the Silmarils, was the Elf-y equivalent. Tolkien tended to use the word 'assay' about this area.

Each of the Valar, I suspect, had one such manifestation. Yavanna's was The Two Trees. During these, some part of their essence appears to have gone into the creation. Even Melkor and Sauron created events and artefacts into which they imbued a part of their essence. Melian and her Girdle in Doriath appears to have been another.

When I attempt to get a handle on the area in order to extract some underlying dimensions, I keep returning to the metaphysical dimensions for the really interesting stuff. For example, Elves and The Spirit World. Whoever crafted the metaphysical dimensions associated with the Straight Road? What's this 'otherworldyness' we see Glorfindel transition into? What is this 'Wraith' equivalent dimension of shadows? How is 'reality' itself organised? Mandos and his halls for all the Dead? Where are The Forgotten Caves (where the Ar Pharazon and co are imprisoned until The Second Making)? How is The Void's existence occurring in context to Arda?

But, it's the Flame Imperishable, Ea, that is the most intriguing. Something that is beyond light, but often attributed with 'living' radiance (the Phial and The Silmarils, the Sun and the Moon).

Then, even given all of that--one of the things The Powers just never were able to do: they were the *worst* at being able to see a lie. There was no-one in Arda who really ever had the capacity to read a mind, or a soul, infallibly. In fact, all the ruin in Middle Earth seems attributable to this one major pitfall.....

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Ivriniel

Then, even given all of that--one of the things The Powers just never were able to do: they were the *worst* at being able to see a lie. There was no-one in Arda who really ever had the capacity to read a mind, or a soul, infallibly. In fact, all the ruin in Middle Earth seems attributable to this one major pitfall.....

Well, I would clarify that idea to say that the Valar had great difficulty detecting deception because that act was in itself negative. It was said of Manwë that he did not comprehend Melkor's devotion to evil because Manwë himself was free from it. I think the same could be said of the other Valar. And yes, though that lack of insight led to their being deceived, I see it as also being a saving grace in that none of them followed Melkor into evil, turning away from their assigned duty of "administering" Arda for the One.

[Ivriniel]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Well, I would clarify that idea to say that the Valar had great difficulty detecting deception because that act was in itself negative. It was said of Manwë that he did not comprehend Melkor's devotion to evil because Manwë himself was free from it. I think the same could be said of the other Valar. And yes, though that lack of insight led to their being deceived, I see it as also being a saving grace in that none of them followed Melkor into evil, turning away from their assigned duty of "administering" Arda for the One.

Hey there Inziladun,

I take your point. I'd forgotten that take on truth-speaking, and had some flashes of remembrance as I read your post, and it makes sense when I think about it. It's an interesting feature of the position about evil, the way it's put in the mythology. Evil-see-evil-do, so good-see-good-do, and no overlap.

The subject of evil, in one sense, as Tolkien writes about it, is a big area. I'd love to hear your thoughts: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18738 where I'm looking at this aspect of Eru's offspring.

If Eru made the Valar--and Melkor.....yadda yadda (see the URL). I've given thought to how Manwe's great sight might be adapted to this, without his manifestation of evil. As a being who exists in a contrast to Melkor, then there are many ideas about how Manwe's Sight and how to extend that.

I speak of a Power I call 'unsight' (I realise this is not cannon Tolkien--but, it's where I went thinking about Manwe and his 'not seeing' Melkor).....

cheers
ivriniel

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Well, I would clarify that idea to say that the Valar had great difficulty detecting deception because that act was in itself negative.

We can also observe these remarks from the second part of "Notes on motives in the Silmarillion" (Section VII "Myths Transformed" from Morgoth's Ring):
"No one, not even one of the Valar, can read the mind other other 'equal beings': that is one cannot 'see' them or comprehend them fully and directly by simple inspection."

Regarding the powers and abilities of the Valar, we might also take note of this comment from Section VI of "Myths Transformed" regarding Melkor:
"He was to make/devise/begin; Manwë (a little less great) was to improve, carry out, complete." Before his descent into evil, Melkor was intended by Eru as an initiator. We can see how this was corrupted into impatience, and in Morgoth's own hierarchy Sauron took on a role similar to that which Eru intended for Manwë, completing projects Morgoth could not "in the furious haste of his malice."

[mhagain]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

regarding Melkor:
"He was to make/devise/begin; Manwë (a little less great) was to improve, carry out, complete."

It's just struck me that this is actually an interesting parallel with the roles of Elves and Men.

[Wousides]

I think another of Gandalf's powers was to raise the spirits and resolve of those he moved among. I'm pretty sure it's mentioned in the section on the Maia in the Silmarillion (although it refers to him by his Maia name, Olorin).

[Ivriniel]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

We can also observe these remarks from the second part of "Notes on motives in the Silmarillion" (Section VII "Myths Transformed" from Morgoth's Ring):
"No one, not even one of the Valar, can read the mind other other 'equal beings': that is one cannot 'see' them or comprehend them fully and directly by simple inspection."

About whether or not scanning for deception, is essentially a 'negative' event, I have pondered this. For beings that do not see the potential for the dark side in their own creations, then, it is the failure to scan for deception and vulnerability that is the act of inadvertently disguised evil. Said another way, the need to see the world as pure, because of one's own need for bathing in one's own creations and beauty, is then, perilously lazy and undisciplined. It is the act that inadvertently births evil by denial of evil.

Regarding the powers and abilities of the Valar, we might also take note of this comment from Section VI of "Myths Transformed" regarding Melkor:
"He was to make/devise/begin; Manwë (a little less great) was to improve, carry out, complete." Before his descent into evil, Melkor was intended by Eru as an initiator. We can see how this was corrupted into impatience, and in Morgoth's own hierarchy Sauron took on a role similar to that which Eru intended for Manwë, completing projects Morgoth could not "in the furious haste of his malice."

I see, though, that Eru's will was not entirely undone or [not] not (double not) respected in regards to Morgoth and Sauron. [And a double 'not' has not the same implications as its inverse 'to be respected'. The former is 'the least worst choice of two seemingly ill choices' compared to the situation where one looks for 'the best choice']. In Morgoth's inverted universe, his variation on 'initiator', was begun by providing the inadvertent vigilance to the Valar to take more heed of their own creative acts. He forces the Valar to look at themselves by initiating destruction of their works. Melkor, by subversion, is then, the eternal Vala acting, in an inadvertent, unconscious role of self-sacrifice. For, all his works were initiating of an unmaking of works of the Valar, in order to, through Melkor's own vanity, provide a vanity mirror for the Valar, so they could see where their own vanity had influenced their own creations. As such, Melkor, the unconscious initiator of the Valar to take heed and rework their acts of mastery, after having them unmade sufficient times, such that their final works, (The Second Making in the Second Prophesy of Mandos) could be a world where more humility, and appreciation that all things are not always what they seem.

It is not entirely obvious how there is temporal event (effect to precede cause), where Melkor's works, basically, take effect by 'running time backwards'. If you move the 'starting point' about 'creation', to an unmaking of 'all there is', then Melkor's role and will, is effected through what was inspired in the Valar, through Melkor's acts.

He is, in the end, the pariah of creation, and bearer of all the suffering he manifested. I suspect Eru would, in a second making, manifest something significant with this, through a fusion of Melkor with some kind of 'flow' or energetic dead lock, to all other Valar, where they are forced into a symbiotic working relationship.

Greed dead locks--I call this unsight. Each expression of self-sacrifice must reconcile its greed-anti-self into an inverted flow of greed, such that greed results in birth and where greed is giving. This paradox of inter-relationships is easy to develop in a correction of the Valar and the way their consciousness is expressed.

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Ivriniel

About whether or not scanning for deception, is essentially a 'negative' event, I have pondered this. For beings that do not see the potential for the dark side in their own creations, then, it is the failure to scan for deception and vulnerability that is the act of inadvertently disguised evil. Said another way, the need to see the world as pure, because of one's own need for bathing in one's own creations and beauty, is then, perilously lazy and undisciplined. It is the act that inadvertently births evil by denial of evil.

The most obvious example, and the one to which I assume you are referring, is Manwë failing to perceive the continuing evil in Melkor after his imprisonment. Isn't the fault with Melkor for dissembling his intentions? I don't see Manwë as someone who (intentionally or otherwise) is trying to revel in some self-satisfied perception of the world's goodness. I see a being capable of great love who wishes for his brother to be redeemed, and who has faith in Eru that good will out. I'm not sure what example you're referring to, though, when you talk about "beings that do not see the potential for the dark side in their own creations."

Originally Posted by Ivriniel

I see, though, that Eru's will was not entirely undone or [not] not (double not) respected in regards to Morgoth and Sauron. [And a double 'not' has not the same implications as its inverse 'to be respected'. The former is 'the least worst choice of two seemingly ill choices' compared to the situation where one looks for 'the best choice']. In Morgoth's inverted universe, his variation on 'initiator', was begun by providing the inadvertent vigilance to the Valar to take more heed of their own creative acts.

Which is because Eru incorporates all things, good or evil, into the music, and from evil greater, unforeseen good arises, which is why Arda Healed would be a greater thing than Arda Unmarred. It would also be a different thing, hence there is no need for time to "run backwards." Arda Unmarred is not the same thing as Arda Healed. The latter proceeds from the former via Arda Marred (the intermediary stage). I assume I'm interpreting your rather complex thought processes correctly in providing that response...

[tom the eldest]

Each valar have their own powers

-manwe is leader of the valar,and a such,highest in authority,but not in power.he is also the king of the skies,and(i think)can command wind and cloud.

-aule,he specialised in crafting,and he is very similar to eru in term of understanding eru's way.he also can make living beings,but need eru to breathe life to them for them to be fully alive.

-yavanna can control the forest,and living things.

-tulkas is a stomping machine,being able to curbstomp melkor with ease.

- ulmo can control the seas,and every body of water that connected to the sea.

-namo, i know nothing abut him.

-the maiar follow their valar so they have similar power only lesser.

[mhagain]

This is all covered in the Valaquenta; example:

Námo the elder dwells in Mandos, which is westward in Valinor. He is the keeper of the Houses of the Dead, and the summoner of the spirits of the slain. He forgets nothing; and he knows all things that shall be, save only those that lie still in the freedom of Ilúvatar. He is the Doomsman of the Valar; but he pronounces his dooms and his Judgements only at the bidding of Manwë.

But you're not going to find a list of "powers" like in a D&D manual, if that's what you're looking for.

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by Paradus

Know I'm curious what kind of powers could they have?

The Silmarillion says, "ye shall show forth your powers in adorning this theme, each with his own thoughts and devices, if he wills" [Ainulindalë, p. 3] It is also said that they are called the Valar, "the Powers of the World", since "their power should thenceforward be contained and bounded in the World, to be within it forever, until it is complete, so that they are its life and it is theirs." [p.10] We have seen Aulë create Dwarves but they could only be as automatons as far as he could go with them. When the Valar put on raiment they too like Elves suffer to some degree with thought transmission since it has to pass through the raiment.

[Belegorn]

It is true that Melkor was the mightiest, "Ilúvatar spoke...Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor". [Sil., Ainulindalë, p. 6] This is mentioned many times throughout the Silmarillion.

The mightiest of those Ainur who came into the world was in his beginning Melkor" [Valaquenta, p. 18]

It is also recalled that, "so great was the power of his uprising that in ages forgotten he contended with Manwë and all the Valar" [pp. 25-26].

The greatest power under Eru (sc. the greatest created power)... in the early age of Arda he was alone able to drive the Valar out of Middle-earth into retreat. [MR. p. 390]

However, Melkor in his beginning is not the same as the Morgoth in the North of Beleriand. It is said in Morgoth's Ring, "Melkor had already progressed some way towards becoming 'the Morgoth, a tyrant (or central tyranny and will), + his agents'. Only the total contained the old power of the complete Melkor; so that if 'the Morgoth' could be reached or temporarily separated from his agents he was much more nearly controllable and on a power level with the Valar." [p. 390]

His power was at this point dispersed, so that instead of being concentrated in himself alone his servants had a share in it to the point where only with himself and his agents all-together could he come close to the power he once wielded. When he and Manwë come face to face we are shown how they both note the difference in Melkor, "Both are amazed: Manwë to perceive the decrease in Melkor as a person; Melkor to perceive this also from his own point of view: he has now less personal force than Manwë, and can no longer daunt him with his gaze.... he is 'dispersed'." As you can see he was shocked to learn of the diminishment of himself as well. Perhaps among his servants he did not recognize it because compared to any one of them singly he was so much more powerful. But when he comes face to face with his peers and sees that he is lesser than Manwë this is crazy news. His agents the Valar could easily deal with and Morgoth now was more like to the Valar in power when they separated him from them.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

I've always found it a helpful metaphor to think of Evil (= Melkor) in Arda as a drop of black ink in a glas of water: a core but concentrated globule of pure black, which gradually dissipates throughout the whole (cf. the phrase "the whole of Arda was Morgoth's Ring) until we get uniform grey (i.e. our own time).

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

I've always found it a helpful metaphor to think of Evil (= Melkor) in Arda as a drop of black ink in a glas of water: a core but concentrated globule of pure black, which gradually dissipates throughout the whole (cf. the phrase "the whole of Arda was Morgoth's Ring) until we get uniform grey (i.e. our own time).

Yet the grey is still a canvas upon which Ilúvatar paints.

'And thou Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.'

The Silmarillon Ainulindalë

To me, that suggests that Ilúvatar knew full well what Melkor would do, and had made Melkor with that "flaw" of character for a purpose. That purpose is unstated directly, but Eru said the above words in the presence of the other Valar, and they would take it as an article of faith that, as the Eldar later explained to the Dúnedain in Númenor, Eru did not "plant to no purpose", and that while they were expected to do their best to try and counter Melkor's acts, if they failed they were not to worry or overextend their powers, or, more importantly, their authority in fighting him.

[Ivriniel]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Yet the grey is still a canvas upon which Ilúvatar paints.

The Silmarillon Ainulindalë

To me, that suggests that Ilúvatar knew full well what Melkor would do, and had made Melkor with that "flaw" of character for a purpose. That purpose is unstated directly, but Eru said the above words in the presence of the other Valar, and they would take it as an article of faith that, as the Eldar later explained to the Dúnedain in Númenor, Eru did not "plant to no purpose", and that while they were expected to do their best to try and counter Melkor's acts, if they failed they were not to worry or overextend their powers, or, more importantly, their authority in fighting him.

Exact-rr-y

@Zigur

Irrespective of idealised, or otherwise notions of metaphysics, and contemplations about the nature of Good and Evil in Tolkien's dualist universe, back to basics about the Ainulindale--Melkor is embedded in Arda, deliberately.

"thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined."

@reader

Arda-healed is a position not antagonistic to my own. In my positioning, I use some of Tolkien's linguistic turns of phrase or nuances to position ideas about what might have ensued in any Second Making for the Second Prophesy of Mandos.. Which incidentally, does, indeed occur after the breaking of Arda--(too busy to grab my Tomes and quote from it)--where, when the Powers grow weary, Melkor returns thru the Doors of Night to do battle at Ezellohar. My ideas are not overly concerned with 'measuring' the relative 'power quotient' in a ranking of the Valar. I realise I made some points about the First Age and used ideas in The Silmarillion to 'rank' Melkor's power against his bretheren. Melkor (and all the Valar) bleed power as they 'invest' their might into the Firmament of Arda. Central to what I'm suggesting, in any case, is that A Second Making would, indeed, need to break the firmament of Arda to reorganise reality.

I'm pondering, then about revisionist expressions of Valar-ian power, where the question and notion of Evil is addressed. The problem is the tendency for the Arda-ian mind to be divisionist in how she or he purposefully splits the universe (and so their own mind--entre Gollum/Sméagol) with critical fracture lines. On 'this' side of the fracture--all is Good--and on 'that' side--all is Evil. That is, to their own peril, every being in Arda devises splits, within the mind, dividing their universe up. An Orc is the mirror-image-inverse fractured mind of the Elf, and the two beings, do indeed, imply the existence of a gestalt, or a synergy being that is greater in measure, insight, subtlety and purpose than either Elf of Orc, for example. The same applies for the 'Evil-Vala--Good-Vala' critical fracture line. They two are interdependent, and inspire (Eru) things 'more wonderful' than *either* being could devise, singularly.

Which is to remind us of Eru's own words where:

...For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined

We have not seen these 'more wonderful' creations yet, because 'he himself hath not imagined' them.

This is where I found an insight about the Good/Evil bifurcation about creations in Arda. It's implied in the Mythology, tacitly, everywhere I look. Unsight for a creation in Arda, is the idealising of notions of dynamic flow of good and evil 'energies' in metaphysical planes (and much more beyond. Inverses of an inverse imply, tacitly and explicitly, the 'things wonderful' running Evil in the INverse.

So, for example, for Ungoliant's Unlight, visualise her as a 'power station' and 'vacuum cleaner' and plugging her into an "inversion-inverter" -- some kind of Artefact that conjoins Arda's expressions of The Flame Imperishable, with the 'recycling' function of Evil.

Wraith, Necromantic and Evil manifestations, in the end, are just inversions of life. If the moral implications of 'Evil' are suspended, just for a moment, these ideas of Sauron and Melkor merely imply and prompt the birthing of 'more wonderful' creations.

For example--and this one was a flash I had today. If the Three Rings had been crafted with a 'failsafe' that recognised the 'signature' of metaphysical 'flow' of The Flame Imperishable running in the Inverse (i.e. Necromancy), there is no reason to have pre-supposed that the Mirdain could have created The Rings to 'backflow' or 'backflush' an attempt by a Sauronic tyrant to dominate the Rings. In this reformulation of The Rings of Power, the attempt to subvert a being wearing a Ring would experience and amplified, backflush, of Elvendom, in a positive feedback loop, so that a takeover attempt propagated Elvendom into the Wielder of the One. This does not need 'more power than Sauron' this modelling of energetics merely needs to devise a 'flow parameter' that inverts the polarity of a 'takeover' attempt, which, then, uses an Evil Compulsion quite against itself. No additional power required.

That is but one idea about what reorganisation of reality would be required, to 'heal' Arda by interlocking antithetical, seemingly opposed 'power' concepts into ideas that are synergistic.

In the end, energetics of magic in Arda do imply ideas about 'flow'. One 'flow' is the Giving of 'radiance' of the 'Valinorean planes of existence'. One 'flow' is the syphoning--taking--of life, to, presumably, return some feature of energy back to The Void.

[Ivriniel]

The materials I've posted are not the 'Tolkien's Arda' of the First Making, but about what Tolkien might have meant for a second making: it's an interpolation of what Eru meant:

thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined

I.e. stop trying to 'defeat' the other. Melkor as the 'evil other' and from Melkor's point of view, the Valar as the--what--'good other'? And an implication of Eru's final ideas in the Music of the Ainur, when Arda is broken and remade.

[Yregwyn]

They could create they just couldnt create new life forms, like Aule and the dwarfs. Aule made the dwarfs and they could walk and talk but were like robots is the way i interpreted it. Eru gave them feelings and free thought. When Aule took his hammer and was going to destroy them he noticed they were scared and begged him not to kill them, thats when he realized Eru had decided to let them be. Gandalf and the Balrog made fire and lightining when they fought on top of the mountain. It said thay people who saw it saw lightning strike and fire fly out from the top of the mountain, like a storm id say. When the Valar threw down Angband they sank Beleiand, I would imagine that they could use the flame imperishable to control the elements and do 'magic' and such, some would be better at certain things then others. Manwe and wind, Ulmo and water ect.... but i imagine they could all use them all to a extent.