Radagast's ultimate fate

[Alfirin]

This is more a thread for speculation that textual citation but may prove interesting.

What in your opinion ultimately happened to Radagast in the post LOTR ages. One one hand he technically failed in the mission assigned to him in the Undying lands, failed as much as Saruman did. However he seems to have been treadted far more kindly and tenderly than Saruman was (since he shows no desire to dominate it, just to more or less become a part of it), there seems to be no textual evidence that Gandalf ever did anything forceful to him, as say, casting him out of the order as well (If he has the authority to do this to Saruman he almost certainly had the authority to do so to Radagas, who if you count thing fully hierarchical he very likey outranked even before his death and ressurection) or forcing him to return to the Undying Lands to face his fate there (since the forth age is in many ways an age of Men, there might be issues with any Maia still being around in it (Bombadil doesn't really count in this case, its pretty obvios he has his own set of rules). Basically Gandalf seems content to simply leave Radagast to his own devices, basically free to do as he wishes in ME in the post Ganadalf era. While Tolkein never says so, I amost like to think that this is interntional on Gandalf's part, that before setting sail for the west (during the "hidden period between Gandalf leaving the fellowship at Bree and showing up again at the Grey Havens) in addition to talking to Bombadil, he sougt Radagas out one last time for a final conversation with him as well. Maybe as the new "head" of the order and Eru's special envoy, he was allowed to offer Radagast absoution for his failure and and opportunity to returnt to the west as well, one Radagast declined. Maybe he actually gave Radagast a new mission, to sort of stand as the last watcher of ME, not to influence events as Gandalf and Saruman has done, but just to keep an eye on things. If Tolkein really had told the truth and ME was our own world long, long ago, I sort of Image that, in one sense or another, Radagast may still be out there.

[Inziladun]

I seem to remember another recent thread that touched on this, but a quick search yielded negative results.

I think the fact that Radagast is not seen taking ship with Gandalf at the Havens is significant. It was an indication that he had totally forgotten his reasons for being in Middle-earth. R. certainly did "fail", in that he is said to have lost his focus and forgotten about being part of the resistance to Sauron, or at the least had apparently become very passive in the mission of the Istari, only doing things that were specifically asked of him by Gandalf and the White Council.
Gandalf says repeatedly that the Third Age was "his" age, and that he was the "enemy of Sauron". Since the Istari were all in the same boat, so to speak, as far as their ultimate purpose for being in Middle-earth, I would think that none of them had any business remaining behind after Sauron's fall. Staying in in the mortal lands was dangerous, for themselves and ME's less powerful denizens. There would, I think, be too much of a tendency to abuse their powers, especially after Gandalf's leaving.
I rather think Radagast, and the Blues Brothers as well were ultimately "depowered" and their bodies (which were mortal) taken away from them by their superiors. The alternative, leaving such uniquely powerful beings to their own devices after their "official" assignment was over, would seem to be a needless risk.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I rather think Radagast, and the Blues Brothers as well were ultimately "depowered" and their bodies (which were mortal) taken away from them by their superiors. The alternative, leaving such uniquely powerful beings to their own devices after their "official" assignment was over, would seem to be a needless risk.

As logical as this is... it really doesn't feel to me like the way Middle-earth operates. Part of the problem for me is that the Valar never tied up dangerous, enemy loose ends, let alone possibly harmless good-guy ones. Sauron... never captured when Melkor was, after the awakening of the Elves. Same with the Balrogs. Sauron, a Balrog, and dragons--and who knows what else--were left all over Middle-earth after the War of Wrath.

Quite apart from the way the Valar operate, it doesn't feel like the way Tolkien operated. Middle-earth is littered with "left-overs." That's part of its wonderful charm. Swords from Gondolin cropping up in troll-holds, the One Ring turning up in Gollum's lair, Palantíri rediscovered in Gondorian towers, descendants of Manwë's eagles still living in the Misty Mountains....

To me it seems much more in keeping with Tolkien's mentality if we think of Radagast "going native" like the Huorns--shepherd becoming like sheep. Like the strain of Elves and Maiar entering the Mannish race and ennobling it, perhaps we should think of Radagast "going wild," bringing a little bit of faerie to the woods and wilds of 4th Age (and later ages) Middle-earth.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I seem to remember another recent thread that touched on this, but a quick search yielded negative results.

I suppose you mean this one.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Gandalf says repeatedly that the Third Age was "his" age, and that he was the "enemy of Sauron". Since the Istari were all in the same boat, so to speak, as far as their ultimate purpose for being in Middle-earth, I would think that none of them had any business remaining behind after Sauron's fall. Staying in in the mortal lands was dangerous, for themselves and ME's less powerful denizens. There would, I think, be too much of a tendency to abuse their powers, especially after Gandalf's leaving.
I rather think Radagast, and the Blues Brothers as well were ultimately "depowered" and their bodies (which were mortal) taken away from them by their superiors. The alternative, leaving such uniquely powerful beings to their own devices after their "official" assignment was over, would seem to be a needless risk.

Hm, I don't know, that seems a somewhat drastic measure to me. Maybe for Jake and Elwood, in the version of their story where they became corrupted and started secret magic cults rather than working against Sauron from within his territory in the South and East - but even then, I guess the Valar could have left it to Men to deal with them somehow; after all Sauron himself had been overcome mainly by mortals (with a little help from Gandalf and the Elves, and maybe one or two nudges of divine providence), and I don't think either of them were in Sauron's class.

As for Radagast, I could imagine that since he had forgotten about his original mission, as you say, the Valar decided to forget about him in turn and leave him where he was, if he was content to remain there. I don't see him becoming much of a danger to anybody - I mean, he hadn't been taking enough interest in the affairs of Men to interfere with them for a long time, and that wasn't likely to change significantly in the foreseeable future, rather the contrary (except maybe if they threatened his beloved animals). morm expressed it very well in that other thread I linked to:

Originally Posted by mormegil

Radagast, in my opinion, would become more mortal like in his apathy, he wouldn't cross the ocean to Valinor as he is dwindling and dimishing in his knowledge and prior greatness. I think he would remain in Middle-earth a mere shadow of what he became continually tending to his micro-environment without concerning himself with the goings on of the world around him. He wouldn't die but wouldn't grow.

Who knows, maybe he ended up as the archetype of all the spirits of the wood that haunt European folk mythology, something remotely like our German Rübezahl or I don't know what would be the English equivalent - a guardian of nature, generally benign but with a bit of a trickster personality and a nasty temper if you cut down trees or shoot deer too deep in the forest.


EDIT: x-ed with Form, who seems to be thinking in a similar direction in the last paragraph.

[Boromir88]

I'm going to have to go digging through the sources, but I think there are clear differences between Gandalf's success in the Istari mission, and the others' failures.

I wouldn't go so far as to say the 3 unknowns (Radagast, Alatar and Pallando) failed in the manner that Saruman did. None of them failed like Saruman who actually accepted Sauron's (his supposed Enemy) goals as the right path. Then again, did the 3 unknowns succeed in the way that Gandalf did? No. Still, I would separated their failing from Saruman's failing.

There are very late writings, which were unfinished and you can take from them what you wish. Like I said, I'll try to dig them up. Basically, in some very late writings Tolkien said that the Blue Wizards were vital in the resistance against Sauron in the East. They were sent in almost a special mission to go East and keep down the numbers of Men who would join Sauron's army. And they were indeed successful in this, and without the Blue Wizards efforts in the East, the armies of Gondor, Rohan, and the "resistance" led by Gandalf would have failed as Sauron's armies would have swelled and straight out over-whelmed them.

There are also some less than kind writings about Radagast, who basically became lazy. He was a "good" person, by aiding Gandalf a few times, but with regards to his mission became lazy. And in truth, Gandalf actually knew more about birds and nature than Radagast, which was supposed to be Radagast's "specialty."

[Man-of-the-Wold]

I've always felt that Saruman would have had him eliminated

[Alcuin]

The purpose of the Istari was (UT, “The Istari”)

to advise and persuade Men and Elves to good, and to seek to unite in love and understanding all those whom Sauron, should he come again, would endeavor to dominate and corrupt.

…the memory of the Blessed Realm was to them a vision from afar off, for which (so long as they remained true to their mission) [the Istari] yearned exceedingly. …

…Radagast …. became enamored of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures. Thus he got his name … “tender of beasts”…

It wasn’t that Radagast was evil or malicious. Gandalf called him “the honest Radagast” in the Council of Elrond, and reiterated his trust in his integrity, pointing out that it was because of Radagast that Gwaihir the Windlord came to Orthanc, found Gandalf Saruman’s captive, and rescued him. Gandalf successfully used Radagast as a reference in his initial encounter with Beorn.

Radagast simply lost focus on his mission. He was sent to Middle-earth by Yavanna because Aulë sent Saruman. (This part of the legendarium smacks of the kind of jealousy seen in Greek myth between Zeus and Hera, for instance.)

I think that means that Radagast must have remained in Middle-earth until well into the Fourth Age. I don’t believe he still yearned exceedingly for the Blessed Realm, and being a Maia, he would not die of natural causes. The Men of the Vales of Anduin should have had some recourse to him for that time, as well as the Kings of Gondor and Rohan, if they thought to seek him out. Because of his relationship to Yavanna, one wonders why he was not an obvious ally of Treebeard and the Ents; but perhaps he was, and Tolkien did not inform us of it, or else it is not published. (There is a hint in Treebeard’s conversation with Merry and Pippin that he know might know more wizards than just Gandalf and Saruman, so it is quite possible that he knew Radagast, too.)

I think I met Radagast many years ago in Berkley, California. He was running a Ben & Jerry’s, wore Birkenstocks, had a staff, and was followed around by a couple of deer and lots of birds and furry critters.