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Old 11-25-2010, 06:46 PM   #1
Kyranger
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Mouth of Sauron?

Alright I am doing this by memory, so tell me if I get something wrong. Aragorn said at Parth Galen that Sauron did not use his right name or allowed it to be spoken, so why did the Mouth of Sauron introduce himself with that name? And also I think that he even referred to his master as Sauron the Great, or something like that anyway. So what do you guys think? Was it just a slip up or what?
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Old 11-25-2010, 07:05 PM   #2
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Sauron — which means "the abhorred" — isn't his "right name." From various indications in the HoME books, it was originally Mairon or Aulendil. Just as Morgoth was not Melkor's original name, but one applied to him by his enemies, Sauron doubtless didn't consider himself abhorrent, and though he might not have clung to a name like Aulendil — "friend of Aulė" — he might still think of himself as Mairon, which I believe is derived from the "beautiful" meaning of "Maia."
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Old 11-25-2010, 07:14 PM   #3
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Maybe, but the reference to Aragorn is in the context where Gimli has just said "S is for Sauron", to which Aragorn replies "Sauron does not permit his name to be spoken." It is clear from the context that it is the name "Sauron" specifically that Sauron does not permit to be spelled or spoken. Which still leaves the question wide open.

I'd guess it was an oversight on Tolkien's part (one of few) - unless we hypothesize that the Mouth was so high in Sauron's favor that he was allowed to use the name. In that case we could say that Aragorn's information was not 100% correct (perhaps he had only before encountered servants of Sauron that were not permitted to speak/write the name).
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Old 11-25-2010, 07:27 PM   #4
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There has been a long-ish thread about this some time ago. I believe it was even possibly started by me Oh yes, and it was - here it is: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=13616
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Old 11-25-2010, 07:36 PM   #5
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My position is that Sauron did not allow his servants to use any personal name for him under normal circumstances, probably due to a desire to be as impersonal to his minions as possible, befitting the "king and god" status he wanted to have with them.
When dealing with his enemies, however, the use of a name was required. The Mouth wasn't the first one to do it apparently, either.

Quote:
'Then about a year ago a messenger came to Dįin, but not from Moria--from Mordor: a horseman in the night, who called Dįin to his gate. The Lord Sauron the Great, so he said, wished for our friendship.'
That was Glóin speaking to the Council of Elrond.

So, when Sauron dealt with those he didn't command, he had to use a name, and I think 'the abhorred' was probably not something he particularly hated; on the contrary, he would likely have been proud of it.
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Old 11-26-2010, 08:16 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddleglum View Post
I'd guess it was an oversight on Tolkien's part (one of few) - unless we hypothesize that the Mouth was so high in Sauron's favor that he was allowed to use the name. In that case we could say that Aragorn's information was not 100% correct (perhaps he had only before encountered servants of Sauron that were not permitted to speak/write the name).
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Originally Posted by Inziladun View Post
My position is that Sauron did not allow his servants to use any personal name for him under normal circumstances, probably due to a desire to be as impersonal to his minions as possible, befitting the "king and god" status he wanted to have with them. When dealing with his enemies, however, the use of a name was required.
Also, there's the matter of context: the three were hurriedly trying to work out the allegiance of the Orcs bearing the "S" insignia. Aragorn (and the author) might have thought it irrelevant to mention any such exceptions to the rule at that point.

Whatever the details of Mordorian etiquette, I don't think this concept (that Sauron's servants avoid using his actual name) is just a "freak", brought up in that one chapter and then forgotten. The various Mordor Orcs we meet do go out of their way not to say it, instead substituting "The Great Eye", "Him" etc. (Gollum, who also talks like this, can be presumed to have picked up the habit in Mordor.) It's true that the good characters aren't too keen on using Sauron's name either– there's obviously some kind of "speak of the devil" notion in play in Middle-earth– but they're not nearly so consistent about it.
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Last edited by Nerwen; 11-26-2010 at 08:21 AM. Reason: clarification
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