A Question of Loyalty

[Inziladun]

All right. It's pretty well settled, to my mind, that if any of the Nazgûl had found the One Ring they would have returned it to Sauron.
They would have done so, regardless of whether Sauron physically held the Nine, because their wills were captive to the Nine, which in turn were in thrall to the One.
However, what about the lesser servants of Sauron, specifically the Orcs? They served Sauron and usually followed his orders without question, but there were some indications their loyalty to him was far from perfect.
Grishnákh of the Red Eye seemed to have an interest in the Ring that lay beyond simple attention to duty when Merry and Pippin gave out their hints about it.

'Do I want it? Do I want it?' said Grishnákh, as if puzzled. But his arms were trembling.

'Search you! I'll cut you both to quivering shreds. I don't need the help of your legs to get you away-and have you all to myself!'

(emphasis added)
Both quotes are from TTT The Uruk-Hai

Grishnákh was all business until he really considered the Ring. Then he apparently intended to turn his back on his fellows and do who knows what for his own ends.

And deep in their dark hearts the Orcs loathed the Master whom they served in fear, the maker only of their misery.

Silm Of the Coming of the Elves

'Master' there refers to Melkor, but that quote seems equally applicable to Sauron's troops in later ages.

'What d'you say? - if we get a chance, you and me'll slip off and set up somewhere on our own with a few trusty lads, somewhere where there's good loot nice and handy, and no big bosses.'
'Ah!', said Shagrat. 'Like old times.'

TTT The Choices of Master Samwise

That exchange between the Orc-captains Gorbag and Shagrat tells me the Orcs weren't all that thrilled with toiling under Sauron's thumb from birth to death.
The question is this: if Orcs, be it just one, or a band of them, had actually held the One in their hands, would they have returned it to Sauron? Could they have done so, being already in the mind of evil and seemingly specially vulnerable to lust of it?

[Tuor in Gondolin]

The question is this: if Orcs, be it just one, or a band of them, had actually held the One in their hands, would they have returned it to Sauron? Could they have done so, being already in the mind of evil and seemingly specially vulnerable to lust of it?

Certainly Grisnakh wouldn't have returned it. But I think trying to use it
would have been like Frodo trying it on Mount Doom.

Letters #246
Sauron sent at once the Ringwraiths. They were naturally fully
instructed, and in no way deceived as to the real lordship of the
Ring... if he still preserved some sanity...thery would simply have
waited. Until Sauron himself came.

It would be interesting if Grishakh fled to the northern Misty Mountains
and began to experiment with understanding and wearing the Ring.
Would Sauron have been distracted from attacks by his armies, have
sent the nazgtul, have taken the dangerous tack of going north
immediately with some of his forces or alone?

[Gordis]

I think the magical pull of the Ring was so strong that it would overcome any loyalty, especially such a questionable loyalty as Orcs have for Sauron.


That was exactly how Sauron reasoned when choosing whom to send for the Ring. He couldn't send Men, even as loyal as the Mouth, he couldn't send Orcs, he only could send the Nazgul.

The Nazgul could be trusted to bring the Ring back to Sauron not because they were loyal per se either, but because Sauron had a firm hold on their wills by other magical items - the Nine Rings he himself held (see how it is explained in UT). Had the Witch-King his own Ring on his finger, he would have been sorely tempted to take the One to become the Ringlord himself.

As for Orcs - I have no doubt that any Orc who had chanced upon the One would try to steal it. If a group of Orcs got the One, they would fight to death over it and then the winner would try to hole up somewhere deep to become "another Gollum".

[Hakon]

I think that there must have been some Orc captains who thought they could steal the ring and become the new dark lord.

'What d'you say? - if we get a chance, you and me'll slip off and set up somewhere on our own with a few trusty lads, somewhere where there's good loot nice and handy, and no big bosses.'
'Ah!', said Shagrat. 'Like old times.'

Also that quote has one line that bothers me. Like old times. Why would the Orcs call that old times? It is almost like they are talking about a time before they were Sauron's servants.

[radagastly]

Originally posted by Hakon:

Also that quote has one line that bothers me. Like old times. Why would the Orcs call that old times? It is almost like they are talking about a time before they were Sauron's servants.

I always suspected that "old times" in that quote simply referred to a time before Sauron rose to power again, and the orcs lived in their lair in the Misty Mountains, or south of that in Moria, or anywhere else they lived before Sauron came back to Mordor and started "calling all evil things to him." Wasn't it that call that got Gollum captured? It certainly would have attracted the orcs as well.

As for the question of this thread, I think that an orc would, I don't doubt, try to keep the Ring, but sooner or later (sooner, since they're orcs) they would succumb, and the Ring would somehow betray them, and they would be captured and brought before Sauron, and tortured forever.

Good thing it didn't happen. What a boring story that would have been.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Hmmm, the "old times" quote raises an additional question as to the longevity of Orcs - were these particular specimens already alive before Sauron came back into power? That is, of course, a sidetrack to the question posed on this thread, and perhaps if there is interest, worthy of its own thread.