Lack of respect displayed by Gimli - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

MatthewM · 01-18-2008, 03:52 PM

I just noticed this recently - besides the fact that Gimli's character was highly tampered with in the films, and besides the fact that he stood on Balin's grave in Moria...there is another scene in which Gimli showed complete disrespect. It's in the scene "The Last Debate"...he is actually sitting on Denethor's vacant (although technically then Faramir's) throne! Unbelievable.

Why would PJ not care about showing some respect to the dead, especially Denethor? Do you think he thought it comical as he made Denethor a true madman in the films?

Once I caught this I was quite perturbed.

Elladan and Elrohir · 01-18-2008, 04:01 PM

Well...if they're going to put him standing on Balin's tomb, that makes sitting on the Stewards' Chair a little tame, doesn't it?

Gimli's pretty immature and disrespectful throughout the films...not really sure why, at all. I think they could have still gotten a lot of comic relief out of him without resorting to belching and the like.

Although I have to admit, maybe I'm just immature myself, but I chuckle everytime I see his belch in the midst of Theoden and Aragorn's tense exchange in TTT. It works perfectly to break the tension. Still doesn't mean it was the best thing to do, though...

Sauron the White · 01-18-2008, 04:22 PM

That is one way to look at it Matthew.
Another way to look at it is that Gimli is a trained and hardened warrior who has been through it all before and knows that when battle and death face you nothing but survival means anything. If you have to climb up on a tomb to gain a tactical advantage, then so be it. Maybe that is some of the wisdom that comes with years of practical experience.

I agree with E&E that sitting on the chair is a bit tame.

MatthewM · 01-18-2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Maybe that is some of the wisdom that comes with years of practical experience.

Doubtful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Good grief! I have seen some nits picked in my time here, but this must nick the prize for pick of the nitpicks ...

Alatar would be proud of you.

Sir, I am King of Nit picking. Thanks.

William Cloud Hicklin · 01-19-2008, 02:06 AM

And whatever one thinks of Denethor, even movie-Denethor, it was by that time Faramir's chair!

Sauron the White · 01-19-2008, 07:29 AM

This seems to be the perfect time for a Saturday Night Live sketch gently poking fun at .....

never mind.

Gwathagor · 01-18-2008, 04:24 PM

Not only is it unfair to the character of Gimli (a helpless and unwilling victim in the hands of the screenwriters), but it's also unfair to the audience. My sense of humor extends far beyond belching and drinking.

I didn't mind Gimli sitting in the Steward's Chair as much as I mind the comic relief Gimli, but I agree, it's still out of place and doesn't really make sense if you think about it. It's unlikely that Aragorn would have allowed it.

If anyone had the right to stand on Balin's Tomb, it would have been Gimli - not that I think he should, or would have in ordinary circumstances. If you think about it, Gimli was only standing on the tomb in order to protect it, to kill any nasty goblins that dared approach it or defile it. Not only that, but he was putting himself in the center of the battle, exposed, for the sake of Balin's Tomb. So, I would argue that Gimli was in fact showing a great deal of respect (in that case), and perhaps more that Balin would have expected.

Groin Redbeard · 01-18-2008, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

If anyone had the right to stand on Balin's Tomb, it would have been Gimli - not that I think he should, or would have in ordinary circumstances. If you think about it, Gimli was only standing on the tomb in order to protect it, to kill any nasty goblins that dared approach it or defile it. Not only that, but he was putting himself in the center of the battle, exposed, for the sake of Balin's Tomb. So, I would argue that Gimli was in fact showing a great deal of respect (in that case), and perhaps more that Balin would have expected.

My sentiments exactly. Although it is a little wierd to say that Gimli was defyling Balin's tomb when we saw Gimli weeping over Balin when he realized he was dead. A very sad moment.

As for Gimli sitting on Denethor's chair, I don't see any lack of respect. Since we are taking things from a movie perspective it is only fair to say that Denethor was a madman. He ignored good council from Gandalf and chose not to listen to Pippin's plea's for him not to burn his own son alive! Why would you show that man any respect?

Gwathagor · 01-18-2008, 06:47 PM

It's not the man, it's the office and all that it represents.

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-18-2008, 07:05 PM

Good grief! I have seen some nits picked in my time here, but this must nick the prize for pick of the nitpicks ...

Alatar would be proud of you.

Groin Redbeard · 01-18-2008, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

It's not the man, it's the office and all that it represents.

Well if you want to talk about disgracing the office than take a good look at Denethor. He nearly brought Gondor to it's doom! Besides, if it was really all that bad, why didn't Aragorn, Gandalf, Eomer, or Legolas say something? A friendly "Hey, you really shouldn't be doing that Gimli."

01-18-2008, 03:52 PM	#1
MatthewM Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Posts: 627	Lack of respect displayed by Gimli I just noticed this recently - besides the fact that Gimli's character was highly tampered with in the films, and besides the fact that he stood on Balin's grave in Moria...there is another scene in which Gimli showed complete disrespect. It's in the scene "The Last Debate"...he is actually sitting on Denethor's vacant (although technically then Faramir's) throne! Unbelievable. Why would PJ not care about showing some respect to the dead, especially Denethor? Do you think he thought it comical as he made Denethor a true madman in the films? Once I caught this I was quite perturbed. __________________ "Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring

01-18-2008, 04:01 PM	#2
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	Well...if they're going to put him standing on Balin's tomb, that makes sitting on the Stewards' Chair a little tame, doesn't it? Gimli's pretty immature and disrespectful throughout the films...not really sure why, at all. I think they could have still gotten a lot of comic relief out of him without resorting to belching and the like. Although I have to admit, maybe I'm just immature myself, but I chuckle everytime I see his belch in the midst of Theoden and Aragorn's tense exchange in TTT. It works perfectly to break the tension. Still doesn't mean it was the best thing to do, though... __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

01-19-2008, 02:06 AM	#5
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,305	And whatever one thinks of Denethor, even movie-Denethor, it was by that time Faramir's chair! __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

01-18-2008, 04:24 PM	#7
Gwathagor Shade with a Blade Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: A Rainy Night In Soho Posts: 2,512	Not only is it unfair to the character of Gimli (a helpless and unwilling victim in the hands of the screenwriters), but it's also unfair to the audience. My sense of humor extends far beyond belching and drinking. I didn't mind Gimli sitting in the Steward's Chair as much as I mind the comic relief Gimli, but I agree, it's still out of place and doesn't really make sense if you think about it. It's unlikely that Aragorn would have allowed it. If anyone had the right to stand on Balin's Tomb, it would have been Gimli - not that I think he should, or would have in ordinary circumstances. If you think about it, Gimli was only standing on the tomb in order to protect it, to kill any nasty goblins that dared approach it or defile it. Not only that, but he was putting himself in the center of the battle, exposed, for the sake of Balin's Tomb. So, I would argue that Gimli was in fact showing a great deal of respect (in that case), and perhaps more that Balin would have expected. __________________ Stories and songs.

01-18-2008, 06:47 PM	#9
Gwathagor Shade with a Blade Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: A Rainy Night In Soho Posts: 2,512	It's not the man, it's the office and all that it represents. __________________ Stories and songs.

01-18-2008, 04:22 PM	#3
Sauron the White Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 903	That is one way to look at it Matthew. Another way to look at it is that Gimli is a trained and hardened warrior who has been through it all before and knows that when battle and death face you nothing but survival means anything. If you have to climb up on a tomb to gain a tactical advantage, then so be it. Maybe that is some of the wisdom that comes with years of practical experience. I agree with E&E that sitting on the chair is a bit tame.

01-19-2008, 07:29 AM	#6
Sauron the White Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 903	This seems to be the perfect time for a Saturday Night Live sketch gently poking fun at ..... never mind.

01-18-2008, 07:05 PM	#10
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Good grief! I have seen some nits picked in my time here, but this must nick the prize for pick of the nitpicks ... Alatar would be proud of you. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!