There is now no ship... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Sauron the White · 12-29-2007, 10:51 AM

In the year 1541 SR, several big events happen. Aragorn - King Elessar dies and Legolas builds a ship and takes Gimli with him down the Anduin and over the Sea. Elessar tells Arwen that she can repent and go into the West through the Grey Havens. But she tells him that "there is now no ship that would bear me hence".

This is causing me a bit of confusion. If Legolas can build a ship and take Gimli with him to the West, why cannot Arwen go with them? Does her choice prohibit that option? If Gimli would be admitted to Valinor, and it seems that he would, why would not Arwen be permitted to go? Was she not aware of the ship Legolas built? If she was, could she had used it?

Elmo · 12-29-2007, 11:15 AM

Notice the word 'would' no ship would because she was now a mortal maiden after she made her choice to stay in Middle Earth at the end of the third age.

Nimrodel_9 · 12-29-2007, 04:19 PM

I love that quote. To me, it has so much meaning buried in it.

It is my opinion that she did not desire to leave. Aragorn, whom she cared for most was now gone. Perhaps she chose to stay in Middle-earth because it made her feel closer to him. Also, Middle-earth is the only land she knew, so this would make leaving hard. She probably didn't have the same longing to go as the others. Perhaps being mortal would lessen the desire to go to Valinor also.

Quempel · 12-29-2007, 08:57 PM

Arwen did not leave because even in Valinor she would find no healing from the separation of the death of Aragorn. Her release was that of mortal death. She knew when she sacrificed everything for her love of and for Aragorn that the price would be she would out live him by several years, and that her only release of the pain of his death and being separated from him would be mortal death. I suspect she would not actually find solace in going to Valinor. It’s a pretty human condition, once someone loses someone they love, a part of them dies and sometimes death is the sweet release they are longing for, not to live forever with the memories of what was and what was lost. This happens when people loose children, many times it destroys the life that is, yet many people can’t get passed it and are waiting for death. Theoden had Eowyn and Eomer to fight for, but he was ready to go to his join his fathers because he had lost his own son. Arwen did not leave because she had nothing left but memories, and she would eventually watch all her children and grandchildren die, and going to Valinor would not change that and could not heal it. Plus she had to seed her place on the last boat to Frodo, who had a chance to heal in Valinor. Arwen’s story is a tragic love story, she knew what she was doing when she decided to chose Aragorn and what the price was choosing him. There was no boat to bear her hence, she did not want a boat to bear her hence.

zxcvbn · 12-30-2007, 12:29 AM

Two things:
1.Arwen was now a mortal woman. Mortals are not permitted to travel to the Undying Lands, with very few exceptions.

2.She had already given up her place on the ship to Frodo.

Sauron the White · 12-30-2007, 09:01 AM

Yes, Arwen gave up her spot on the ship to Frodo. But many years later Legolas built a new ship that could have accomodated her. And since exceptions were made - for even a dwarf - could not one be made for the daughter of Elrond?

The ideas that ring most true with me are the ones that she simply did not want to leave Aragorn behind even in death.

12-29-2007, 10:51 AM	#1
Sauron the White Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 903	There is now no ship... In the year 1541 SR, several big events happen. Aragorn - King Elessar dies and Legolas builds a ship and takes Gimli with him down the Anduin and over the Sea. Elessar tells Arwen that she can repent and go into the West through the Grey Havens. But she tells him that "there is now no ship that would bear me hence". This is causing me a bit of confusion. If Legolas can build a ship and take Gimli with him to the West, why cannot Arwen go with them? Does her choice prohibit that option? If Gimli would be admitted to Valinor, and it seems that he would, why would not Arwen be permitted to go? Was she not aware of the ship Legolas built? If she was, could she had used it?

12-29-2007, 11:15 AM	#2
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	Notice the word 'would' no ship would because she was now a mortal maiden after she made her choice to stay in Middle Earth at the end of the third age. __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.

12-29-2007, 04:19 PM	#3
Nimrodel_9 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Utah Posts: 734	I love that quote. To me, it has so much meaning buried in it. It is my opinion that she did not desire to leave. Aragorn, whom she cared for most was now gone. Perhaps she chose to stay in Middle-earth because it made her feel closer to him. Also, Middle-earth is the only land she knew, so this would make leaving hard. She probably didn't have the same longing to go as the others. Perhaps being mortal would lessen the desire to go to Valinor also. __________________ .:A friend is someone who reaches for your hand and touches your heart:.

12-29-2007, 08:57 PM	#4
Quempel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In a flower Posts: 97	Arwen did not leave because even in Valinor she would find no healing from the separation of the death of Aragorn. Her release was that of mortal death. She knew when she sacrificed everything for her love of and for Aragorn that the price would be she would out live him by several years, and that her only release of the pain of his death and being separated from him would be mortal death. I suspect she would not actually find solace in going to Valinor. It’s a pretty human condition, once someone loses someone they love, a part of them dies and sometimes death is the sweet release they are longing for, not to live forever with the memories of what was and what was lost. This happens when people loose children, many times it destroys the life that is, yet many people can’t get passed it and are waiting for death. Theoden had Eowyn and Eomer to fight for, but he was ready to go to his join his fathers because he had lost his own son. Arwen did not leave because she had nothing left but memories, and she would eventually watch all her children and grandchildren die, and going to Valinor would not change that and could not heal it. Plus she had to seed her place on the last boat to Frodo, who had a chance to heal in Valinor. Arwen’s story is a tragic love story, she knew what she was doing when she decided to chose Aragorn and what the price was choosing him. There was no boat to bear her hence, she did not want a boat to bear her hence. __________________ Lurking behind Uncle Fester

12-30-2007, 12:29 AM	#5
zxcvbn Wight Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: In front of my PC Posts: 164	Two things: 1.Arwen was now a mortal woman. Mortals are not permitted to travel to the Undying Lands, with very few exceptions. 2.She had already given up her place on the ship to Frodo.

12-30-2007, 09:01 AM	#6
Sauron the White Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 903	Yes, Arwen gave up her spot on the ship to Frodo. But many years later Legolas built a new ship that could have accomodated her. And since exceptions were made - for even a dwarf - could not one be made for the daughter of Elrond? The ideas that ring most true with me are the ones that she simply did not want to leave Aragorn behind even in death.