Minas Tirith as Constantinople?

[The Sixth Wizard]

I have recently been reading quite a bit about Medieval history, and one thing that struck me was the similarity between Gondor and the late Byzantine Empire.

• Gondorians are from a fallen city across the sea, which fell from prominence. This would be Rome... The religious differences between the 'faithful' and the King's Men could be interpreted as the Great Schism.
• Gondor and Byzantium are in gradual decline, but the thing I noticed was that both were losing old technological secrets. Their old technologies were the things that were letting them hold on for so long (Greek Fire, Numenorean walls, etc.)
• The western heavy knights that reinforced Byzantium throughout the ages could be the Rohirrim.
• Both had held far-off lands before, but had been pushed back to nearly a single city.
• The Ottoman navy was a key factor in the fall of Constantinople (Corsairs).
• Both were the only powers at the time to employ scouting (rangers).
• Both wars saw the use of gunpowder for practically the first time, only on the 'evil' side (see Great Turkish Bombard on Wikipedia)
• **very interesting** The symbol of the city of Constantinople was a moon. (though technically the symbol of Minas Tirith was a sun, but whatever...)

And numerous more I'm sure. These are probably just coincidences, but they were interesting to compare. Do you think Tolkien derived some of the story from the Byzantine Empire's fall? In which other places in the book are similarities with real history?

(by the way, yes, this is what I was obsessed with after going off the Downs for a few months )

[Lindale]

M. Tirith is not a melting point of two great cultures as Byzantium was of Asia and Europe.

But yeah, nice analogy. Minas Anor, then Minas Tirith; Byzantium, then after Constantine died it was renamed Constantinople (although I'm not very sure if Wiki is right). MTirith became MTirith because it serves as a guard against Minas Morgul, and at some point defended by the Great River. Although I don't think MTirith has much gardens before Aragorn; the only gardens were at the Houses of Healing, right? Constantinople; a city where an emperor could sit, readily defended, with easy access to the Danube or the Euphrates frontiers, his court supplied from the rich gardens and sophisticated workshops of Roman Asia, his treasuries filled by the wealthiest provinces of the empire, as Wiki says.

[The Might]

Actually, I have always seen Vienna as Minas Tirith.
For the Turks it was the key to gain passage into western Europe, just as Minas Tirith was the key city that Sauron needed to destroy. Both cities were in bad condition when reinforcements arrived. Both times reinforcements were cavalry (Rohirrim / Polish hussars).
Also, the main difference is that Vienna just like MT withstood the assault, while Constantinople did not.

[Lindale]

Oh well. We can't really expect that Minas Tirith is to be a quasi-Constantinople or any other city right? That would've robbed the wonder of Tolkien, if he was a plain copycat. But as there is nothing new under the sun, and that in lit classes Tolkien is one of those writers who follow (whether they intend to or not) archetypes. And then notice the trends of socio-politics of cities, real ones and those that are fictional yet well-written: they follow patterns that are a little different and at the same time a lot different from one another.

Cheers from little Lindale.

[The Might]

I don't believe that using historical events as inspiration is being a copycat.
Is Tolkien then a copycat because when he speaks of the sinking of Numenor he clearly used the myth of Atlantis as inspiration? I doubt it.
And one must admit there are certain similarities between events happening in Middle-earth and historical events.

[The Sixth Wizard]

Well, I must say that Minas Tirith WAS (to my memory) quite a mixed bag of cultures, certainly more so than any of the other cities. Perhaps Eriador had more of a mix, but elf cities, dwarf dwellings, Rohan and Mirkwood kept to themselves mostly, whereas MT had all of the coastal regions coming and going, and many peoples seeking refuge there.

I think the Byzantine Empire's decline during the Dark Ages is the most similar to Gondor's decline than any other historical event, also the fact that they remained the most sophisticated and advanced than other cultures in many ways even when in decline. Their population suffered like Gondor's mainly because of plague, civil war and foreign mass invasions (say, the Wainriders).

I also find it interesting that in Middle Earth's First Age, evil came from the North, which correlates to Germanic invasions of Rome... likewise in the Second Age it was decay of society in Westernesse, like the fall of the Western Roman Empire, and in the Third Age it came from the East, which is where the Byzantine Empire was conquered from.

**Great Turkish Bombard = Grond**

Also, the main difference is that Vienna just like MT withstood the assault, while Constantinople did not.

Well, fair enough.