The Route of the Ring

[Mithadan]

In some ways, the route of the Ring through the Misty Mountains via Moria seems almost pre-ordained. It seems that the Ring was "meant" to pass through Moria, and, perhaps, that Gandalf was "meant" to perish. There are, in fact, some tantalizing discussions in Letters suggesting that for Gandalf to complete his task he had to become "super-charged" (become Gandalf the White) and there was only one way to do that...

In a wonderful old thread here, The Bridge at Khazad Dum, there is some discussion about routes over the Misty Mountains at least in the context of trade. The concensus at that time was that there was the High Pass that Bilbo traversed, the Redhorn Pass/Moria route and the Gap of Rohan. This discsussion is supported by the conversation held by the Fellowship following the Redhorn debacle in which the southern route through Gondor and the Gap or Rohan are discussed as the only viable alternatives to entering Moria or turning back to Rivendell.

That the Redhorn Pass might be blocked in the winter by snow was not inconceivable. The hazards of attempting to pass Isenguard by using the Gap of Rohan were well known before the Ring set out. The length of the southern route is emphasized by Boromir's comments at the Council of Elrond. Short of waiting for Spring, which was also not a viable option, to travel south on the west side of the mountains with the intent to cross them and go east presented at least a risk that the Moria passage would be necessary. Indeed, Aragorn mentions that Gandalf had discussed this route with him.

Did Gandalf want to pass through Moria? If so, why? Why not take another route? Gandalf mentions his belief that following the Battle of Five Armies that the Misty Mountains might be relatively clear of Orcs. Why not use the High Pass? Is the long jouney through Wilderland too dangerous? And there was another way...

After the Council of Elrond, the Fellowship waits for scouts to return and report on the Nine and for other signs of the Enemy and "In no region had the messengers discovered any signs or tidings of the Riders or other servants of the Enemy." All was clear on both sides of the mountains. Perhaps the High Pass could have been risked. But what of the "pass at the source of the Gladden River" which apparently crosses the mountains and descends on the east through Gladden Fields? The Gladden Pass is briefly mentioned in The Ring Goes South in the same paragraph addressing the return of the scouts. This pass is not even mentioned as a possible route for the Ring though it was scouted and found to be clear of Sauron's servants. More importantly, having failed to traverse the Redhorn Pass, should not the Gladden Pass have even been considered as an alternative to the dark hazards of Moria? Fonstad's Atlas places the Gladden's source at less than 100 miles north of Redhorn Pass, at least in a straight line. Yes, this means some delay, but better late than dead.

[radagastly]

It is curious that the pass of the Gladden Fields was not even mentioned in the discussion of alternate routes once the Redhorn had defeated them. I don't own Fonstad's Atlas, however the fold-out map from my edition of Fellowship shows a rocky spur or outcropping westward from the Misty Mountains opposite the Gladden Fields. In "The Ring Goes South," I found this brief description:

Yet steadily the mountains were drawing nearer. South of Rivendell they rose ever higher, and bent westwards; and about the feet of the main range there was tumbled an ever wider land of bleak hills, and deep valleys filled with turbulent waters. Paths were few and winding, and led them often only to the edge of some sheer fall, or down into treacherous swamps.

This seems to correspond in the text to the western side of the source of the Gladden River. It occurs just prior to their passage through Hollin. Perhaps it was considered too difficult a passage for the hobbits to manage. And of course in Hollin they observed the crebain from Fangorn and Dunland, "Hollin is no longer wholesome for us; it is being watched." said Aragorn. They may have feared passing back through that country to reach the Gladden pass. Still it's curious that it wasn't at least mentioned.

As for using the High Pass, they may have feared it being snowed under that far north, as well as leaving them exposed between the mountains and Dol Guldur for at least a hundred and fifty miles as they journeyed south to Lorien. The east side of the mountains had not been explored by Elronds scouts before the Ring set out from Rivendell. There was no way to know whether it would be a safe journey.

Did Gandalf want to pass through Moria? If so, why?

From "A Journey in the Dark":

"There is a way that we may attempt," said Gandalf. " I thought from the beginning, when first I considered this journey, that we should try it. But it is not a pleasant way, and I have not spoken of it to the Company before. Aragorn was against it, until the pass over the mountains had at least been tried."

Clearly it was Gandalf's idea from the start, and the strategy is sound. Disappear underground for a while, and emerge just miles from the safety of Lorien.

But of course, there is a bigger "why?" Did Gandalf sense or guess what awaited him in Moria? Clearly, Aragorn did:

It is not of the Ring, nor of us others that I am thinking now, but of you, Gandalf. And I say to you; if you pass the doors of Moria, beware!"

"Over the bridge!" cried Gandalf, recalling his strength. "Fly! This is a foe beyond any of you. I must hold the narrow way. Fly!"

Whether Gandalf knew his fate or not at this point is difficult to say. Did he suspect it before entering Moria? At the West-gate he tells Boromir:

"And," he added, with a glint in his eyes under their bristling brows, "you may ask what is the use of my deeds when they are proved useless."

Unfortunately, Gandalf is such a secretive individual that it's difficult to find any clues as to what he knew or suspected or mused about. Elrond had this to say to Frodo, a week before they left Rivendell:

I can foresee very little of your road; and how your task is to be achieved I do not know. The Shadow has crept now to the feet of the Mountains, and draws nigh even to the borders of the Greyflood; and under the Shadow all is dark to me.

and a paragraph later:

"With you and your faithful servant, Gandalf will go; for this shall be his great task, and maybe the end of his labours."

I don't think Elrond was speaking prophetically here, or at least that he believed he was. It seems more foreshadowing of some unseen doom on the part of the author than anything else.

I need to go study The Two Towers. Maybe Gandalf the White can offer some insight into Gandalf the Grey's motives.

[The Might]

I also wonder why there is no mention of this option, especially since we're told the pass was safe due to Grimbeorn the Old and his men. So they would have anyway received help from Grimbeorn, who would perhaps know of Gandalf or Hobbits from the stories of his father. From there it's not necessary to cross the Anduin, but simply head south towards Lorien (I anyway think they would have done this intead of crossing, since the eastern shore was guarded).
The only argument against it is that it might take too long, but in fact I think it would have been a better decision.

[Mithadan]

I think the High Pass was rejected for a few reasons. First, to have taken that Pass would have placed the Fellowship far to the north in Wilderland. We know very little about what the lands are like between the Misty Mountains and Anduin. These lands may have been difficult to traverse. This makes a southern passage more desirable. Second, it is the obvious route to pass into the eastern lands and, as a result, should have been avoided. Third, the Fellowship's great need was secrecy. Seeking out the help of the Beornings would created an additional group of people who knew that they had passed through even if their errand was not revealed.

The Gladden Pass may have been difficult and could lead into the swampy lands at Gladden Fields. Yet, the description of the scouting party's route is east through the Gladden Pass, south through Wilderland, back west through the Redhorn Pass and then north back to Rivendell. This circuitous route took only a bit over a month for the scouts. It can't have been that difficult a passage and would have placed the Fellowship far closer to Lorien than the High Pass would.

In a sense this returns us to the issue of did Gandalf believe Moria was the best route? Of course, our speculation of the condition of the Gladden Pass and the difficulties presented in moving south between the mountains and the river is... speculation. But it seems clear that Moria was not the only option, in the way that it was presented during the debate between Gandalf and Aragorn.

[Lalwendë]

I've been wondering for a while why Gandalf was unable to solve that simple riddle in order to enter Moria. This could be the answer. I thought it may be that either Gandalf was simply afraid of what he suspected lurked within or that Gandalf was putting off the inevitable. I tend towards the latter - as Gandalf's return seems to be a reward for displaying extreme bravery in accepting and finally facing his doom.

So the delay in entering Moria, together with a fair bit of procrastination (about routes, to look at the Book of Mazarbul etc) during that journey point towards a reluctant Gandalf to me, towards a wizard who has an inkling of his fate.

If his return was 'reward' then this would also depend upon his not thinking that - or else would it be much of a reward for bravery?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

I think the High Pass was rejected for a few reasons. First, to have taken that Pass would have placed the Fellowship far to the north in Wilderland. We know very little about what the lands are like between the Misty Mountains and Anduin. These lands may have been difficult to traverse. This makes a southern passage more desirable. Second, it is the obvious route to pass into the eastern lands and, as a result, should have been avoided. Third, the Fellowship's great need was secrecy. Seeking out the help of the Beornings would created an additional group of people who knew that they had passed through even if their errand was not revealed.

The Gladden Pass may have been difficult and could lead into the swampy lands at Gladden Fields. Yet, the description of the scouting party's route is east through the Gladden Pass, south through Wilderland, back west through the Redhorn Pass and then north back to Rivendell. This circuitous route took only a bit over a month for the scouts. It can't have been that difficult a passage and would have placed the Fellowship far closer to Lorien than the High Pass would.

One certain idea appeared in my mind, do you think that maybe some of these "alternative routes" will be useable if the Fellowship could have obtained the help of Radagast the Brown? That passage reads:

...and some of these had crossed the Mountains and entered Mirkwood, while others had climbed the pass at the source of the Gladden River, and had come down into Wilderland and over the Gladden Fields and so at length had reached the old home of Radagast at Rhosgobel. Radagast was not there; and they had returned over the high pass that was called the Dimrill Stair.

"Radagast was not there" - what if he WAS there? After all, he was willing to help Gandalf and Saruman (when he still thought them both allies) and Gandalf knew that "it would have been useless in any case to try and win over the honest Radagast to treachery", ergo, he would trust him - at least enough to f.ex. lead the Fellowship through the wilderness, where, after all, he was the best guide. Besides all the "Radagast the Fool" things, he was still a Wizard and especially here could be of help, at least, let's say, to bring the Fellowship to Lórien from the Gladden Pass if he was informed to wait for them there or something like that. (Of course, it was probably very dangerous for the Fellowship to tarry in the places too near to Dol Guldur, but still, as it was said before, could be better than Moria).

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

So the delay in entering Moria, together with a fair bit of procrastination (about routes, to look at the Book of Mazarbul etc) during that journey point towards a reluctant Gandalf to me, towards a wizard who has an inkling of his fate.

If his return was 'reward' then this would also depend upon his not thinking that - or else would it be much of a reward for bravery?

So, let me get this straight: you suggest that Gandalf could have known (or, had some vague idea) what's going to happen to him? That he's gonna die? I don't know if this was discussed before, but it would maybe be enough for a stand-alone thread.

[Nazgûl-king]

Yes, it does seem the Gandalf was "meant" to pass through Moria, and it is interesting that the Gladden Fields are not mentioned as an alternative. Perhaps they thought they would have been more likely to be spotted if they went that way, and by going through Moria they would disappear for a while, and maybe they had hopes that if they passed that way they would lose anyone fallowing them.