Gollum - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

03-18-2007, 11:52 AM

One who holds the One Ring in possession long enough becomes a slave to the power that rules the Ring. Was Gollum on the verge of becoming a Ringwraith then?

Legate of Amon Lanc · 03-18-2007, 01:17 PM

I can only quote Gandalf here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by FotR, Chapter 2 "Shadow of the Past"

"Alas! there is little hope of that for him. Yet not no hope. No, not though he possessed the Ring so long, almost as far back as he can remember. For it was long since he had worn it much: in the black darkness it was seldom needed. Certainly he had never "faded". He is thin and tough still. But the thing was eating up his mind, of course, and the torment had become almost unbearable."

I think this is quite clear. Gollum, as much as other halflings, was quite resistant to the effects of the Ring. And he probably was not very much nearer to becoming a Ringwraith than, let's say, Bilbo; or Frodo after the Morgul-wound.

03-18-2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I can only quote Gandalf here:

I think this is quite clear. Gollum, as much as other halflings, was quite resistant to the effects of the Ring. And he probably was not very much nearer to becoming a Ringwraith than, let's say, Bilbo; or Frodo after the Morgul-wound.

Gollum held the Ring longer than they, & anyone else for that matter. The transformation from halfling to a green slimy creature seems to be a indication of the first major signs of a Ringwraith developing. Also there is the extra physical powers which Gollum now has, such as keen hearing & sharp eyes which light up even in the dark.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 03-18-2007, 03:18 PM

Indeed. But he was not going to change into Ringwraith unless maybe if he had the Ring for another five hundred years or something like that. Gollum had the Ring for 478 years, if I count correctly, and even if Sauron gave the Rings to the Nazgul right after he acquired them* (1697 Second Age), the first appearance of the Nazgul as wraiths is dated to 2251 - so this is 554 years for the Nazgul to wear them, not much longer than Gollum did. And he certainly seemed still quite "okay" (in the terms).
With using the Bilbo and Frodo example, I wanted to lighten the things a little bit, of course they didn't have the Ring as long as Gollum. But Frodo was, as Gandalf said, "on the threshold of the Shadow-world" when coming to Rivendell, whilst Gollum was still perfect living and breathing creature as much as he could.
And, the "green slimy creature" - first, I don't think it is anywhere written that Gollum was green. Second, I think his change was mainly given by the environment he lived in, he might have looked like death, but try living in a cave on the edge of a slimy lake for five hundred years eating only fishes and some orcs from time to time, and you will look no better than him. So I think this is not the answer.

*which I doubt, by the way, I think he had his mind on the war at that time. I find it likely that he gave them to the Nazgul sometime around 1800 when he "started to spread his influence to the East" and also shadow fell over Númenor - and we know that three of the Ringwraith were three "great Númenorean lords", and he couldn't reach them until they started building their provincional cities in ME - which is exactly what they did around 1800 SA. In this counting, the Nazgul would have worn their Rings for only about 450 years till their transformation, which is less than Gollum did, and he still had not "faded" (as Gandalf said).

03-18-2007, 05:18 PM

The fact that Gollum had a much increased lifespan also points to the likelihood of an undead wraith developing. If Gollum did not perish at Mount Doom, would it have been possible for him to return to his former self phsically or mentally? Almost certainly not, as the Ring & he were like one, much like the Ringwraiths were with their rings. When the Ring was destroyed, Gollum would die as the Ring has become his only reason for a will to live.

I believe Aragorn referred Gollum as a slimy thing in the Council of Elrond, & slime is normally green/brown??

Elmo · 03-19-2007, 12:52 AM

I'm sure hobbits couldn't turn into wraiths because of their inner strength

03-18-2007, 11:52 AM	#1
Mansun Guest Posts: n/a	Gollum One who holds the One Ring in possession long enough becomes a slave to the power that rules the Ring. Was Gollum on the verge of becoming a Ringwraith then?

03-18-2007, 03:18 PM	#4
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Indeed. But he was not going to change into Ringwraith unless maybe if he had the Ring for another five hundred years or something like that. Gollum had the Ring for 478 years, if I count correctly, and even if Sauron gave the Rings to the Nazgul right after he acquired them* (1697 Second Age), the first appearance of the Nazgul as wraiths is dated to 2251 - so this is 554 years for the Nazgul to wear them, not much longer than Gollum did. And he certainly seemed still quite "okay" (in the terms). With using the Bilbo and Frodo example, I wanted to lighten the things a little bit, of course they didn't have the Ring as long as Gollum. But Frodo was, as Gandalf said, "on the threshold of the Shadow-world" when coming to Rivendell, whilst Gollum was still perfect living and breathing creature as much as he could. And, the "green slimy creature" - first, I don't think it is anywhere written that Gollum was green. Second, I think his change was mainly given by the environment he lived in, he might have looked like death, but try living in a cave on the edge of a slimy lake for five hundred years eating only fishes and some orcs from time to time, and you will look no better than him. So I think this is not the answer. *which I doubt, by the way, I think he had his mind on the war at that time. I find it likely that he gave them to the Nazgul sometime around 1800 when he "started to spread his influence to the East" and also shadow fell over Númenor - and we know that three of the Ringwraith were three "great Númenorean lords", and he couldn't reach them until they started building their provincional cities in ME - which is exactly what they did around 1800 SA. In this counting, the Nazgul would have worn their Rings for only about 450 years till their transformation, which is less than Gollum did, and he still had not "faded" (as Gandalf said). __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

03-18-2007, 05:18 PM	#5
Mansun Guest Posts: n/a	The fact that Gollum had a much increased lifespan also points to the likelihood of an undead wraith developing. If Gollum did not perish at Mount Doom, would it have been possible for him to return to his former self phsically or mentally? Almost certainly not, as the Ring & he were like one, much like the Ringwraiths were with their rings. When the Ring was destroyed, Gollum would die as the Ring has become his only reason for a will to live. I believe Aragorn referred Gollum as a slimy thing in the Council of Elrond, & slime is normally green/brown?? Last edited by Mansun; 03-19-2007 at 02:13 PM.

03-19-2007, 12:52 AM	#6
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	I'm sure hobbits couldn't turn into wraiths because of their inner strength __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.