The Elves - What have they ever done for us? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Wayland · 01-12-2007, 02:54 AM

Having seen the Elves in action at Helms Deep (film) I was disappointed to find so little of it (notwithstanding Legolas) in the book.

There is a brief mention of some skirmish by Treebeard in 'Many Partings':

"For there was a great inrush of those, burarum, those evileyed .... etc. etc. ... and they came over the River and down from the North and all round the woods of Laurelindorenan, which they could not get into, thanks to the Great ones who are here. He bowed to the Lord and Lady of Lorien."

I know they gave aid in other ways, but as an ex-RuneQuest gamer (and archer) who always had a major penchant for elves amongst his player characters, I was hoping to read more of their glorious bow-twanging exploits.

Is there any mention elsewhere of such deeds?

Břicho · 01-12-2007, 03:12 AM

IN the War of the Ring, Thranduil's forces were busy fighting in Mirkwood--with the "Woodmen" or Beornings no doubt against the forces of Dol Guldur. I suppose that they really couldn't come galloping to the defense of Gondor any more than could the Dwarves or Erebor or the men of Dale: they were too busy fighting in or around their own lands.

The Rivendell(and presumably Linden) elves seem to be more inactive--they're weary of Middle-Earth and many of them are just biding their time to leave. But they do play an active role in supporting the Dunedain in their defense of the few habitable places left in Eriador, not to mention their fostering of Aragorn, Valandil and possibly others.

Earlier in the Third Age they were quite active against Angmar and they did fight alongside men of both Gondor and Arthedain(and what's left of Cardolan?) against the Witchking. It is Cirdan's Elves who search for and find Arvedui amount the Ice-men of Forochel. And forces from Rivendell and Lindon fight with the armies from Arthedain and Gondor.

Perhaps by the time of the third age they were too few and too weary to do much else? Or perhaps they too were busy defending their realms from the various beasts and "ruffians" that were marauding around Eriador?

This is just the Third Age. Of course in the Second Age there was the Last Alliance, and the entire Silmarillion is an account of the Elves of Beleriand fighting a centuries-long war against Morgoth.

Appendices A and B in the LOTR is the source of a lot of this information--there are probably others as well.

Wayland · 01-12-2007, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B?icho

the entire Silmarillion is an account of the Elves of Beleriand fighting a centuries-long war against Morgoth.

Appendices A and B in the LOTR is the source of a lot of this information--there are probably others as well.

Thanks guys, I'll check the appendices. I was unsure regarding the Silmarillion. I borrowed it from the library many years ago and had to renew it several times in order to get through it. For the life of me, I can't remember a single thing I read in it - just a vague memory of a tsunami of names. I recall finally handing it back to the smug librarian (finished are we?) with a kind of blurred zombified feeling.

Having read the Silmarillion thread, I should perhaps gird my loins, think of England and do battle with this tome once more!!!

Or perhaps not just yet... I'll check the appendices first.

Břicho · 01-12-2007, 07:10 AM

Silmarillion was tough for me to get through the first time, but if you can manage to do it, and if you look at it from the right angle it's really an amazing creation by ole T'.

goldfinger · 01-12-2007, 10:53 AM

Wayland, go read Appendix A and B. They will tell you all about it.

Mithalwen · 01-12-2007, 12:22 PM

Hi Wayland,

I found the names in the Silmarillion confusing the first time and (the second!) I was lucky that I had both the Tolkien Companion (JEA Tyler ) and Fosters "Complete Guide to Middle Earth" to help me through.

I seem to remember preferring the Tyler but either would be useful and are available on Amazon fairly cheaply if the library hasn't got them.

The Silmarillion is great but it is a much harder read than the LOTR though shorter.

You may want to try "Unfinished Tales" as well as the appendices. Although they are ideas and drafts a lot of it is more "user friendly" then the Silmarillion and has some more information on Galadriel and Celeborn, Thranduil's elves at the Last Alliance, Elvish interraction with the men of Numenor as well as stuff about the wizard and the palantiri and Gandalf's version of the beginning of the Hobbit.

Christopher Tolkien has edited a complete version of "The tale of the Children of Hurin" (Of Turin Turambar from the Silmarillion plus other elements published later in Unfinished Tales and the History of Middle Earth) Although the heros are mortals there is a lot of elvish involvement and this single more developed storyline may be more approachable when it is published in April.

You may well be able to get the "Tolkien Audio Collection" through the library too - It has JRRT reading bits of the Hobbit and LOTR and Christopher reading quite long extracts from the Silmarillion. I found it helped hearing it read - and you get a more or less definitive pronounciation guide on some of those names...

Selmo · 01-12-2007, 03:14 AM

Sauron's forces fought major battles with the elves of both Mirkwood and Lorien at the same time as the assault on Minas Tirith, pressumably to prevent the elves coming to the aid of Gondor.
They are refered to (very briefly) in The Tale of Years in the appendices to The Lord of The Rings.
.

01-12-2007, 02:54 AM	#1
Wayland Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Sharkey's Shire - two doors along from Shelob Posts: 14	The Elves - What have they ever done for us? Having seen the Elves in action at Helms Deep (film) I was disappointed to find so little of it (notwithstanding Legolas) in the book. There is a brief mention of some skirmish by Treebeard in 'Many Partings': "For there was a great inrush of those, burarum, those evileyed .... etc. etc. ... and they came over the River and down from the North and all round the woods of Laurelindorenan, which they could not get into, thanks to the Great ones who are here. He bowed to the Lord and Lady of Lorien." I know they gave aid in other ways, but as an ex-RuneQuest gamer (and archer) who always had a major penchant for elves amongst his player characters, I was hoping to read more of their glorious bow-twanging exploits. Is there any mention elsewhere of such deeds? __________________ Raise, Raise the Shire!

01-12-2007, 07:10 AM	#4
Břicho Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Vsetin Czech Republic Posts: 36	Silmarillion was tough for me to get through the first time, but if you can manage to do it, and if you look at it from the right angle it's really an amazing creation by ole T'. __________________ Only when you lose can you really know what it is exactly that you know

01-12-2007, 12:22 PM	#6
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Hi Wayland, I found the names in the Silmarillion confusing the first time and (the second!) I was lucky that I had both the Tolkien Companion (JEA Tyler ) and Fosters "Complete Guide to Middle Earth" to help me through. I seem to remember preferring the Tyler but either would be useful and are available on Amazon fairly cheaply if the library hasn't got them. The Silmarillion is great but it is a much harder read than the LOTR though shorter. You may want to try "Unfinished Tales" as well as the appendices. Although they are ideas and drafts a lot of it is more "user friendly" then the Silmarillion and has some more information on Galadriel and Celeborn, Thranduil's elves at the Last Alliance, Elvish interraction with the men of Numenor as well as stuff about the wizard and the palantiri and Gandalf's version of the beginning of the Hobbit. Christopher Tolkien has edited a complete version of "The tale of the Children of Hurin" (Of Turin Turambar from the Silmarillion plus other elements published later in Unfinished Tales and the History of Middle Earth) Although the heros are mortals there is a lot of elvish involvement and this single more developed storyline may be more approachable when it is published in April. You may well be able to get the "Tolkien Audio Collection" through the library too - It has JRRT reading bits of the Hobbit and LOTR and Christopher reading quite long extracts from the Silmarillion. I found it helped hearing it read - and you get a more or less definitive pronounciation guide on some of those names... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

01-12-2007, 03:12 AM	#2
Břicho Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Vsetin Czech Republic Posts: 36	IN the War of the Ring, Thranduil's forces were busy fighting in Mirkwood--with the "Woodmen" or Beornings no doubt against the forces of Dol Guldur. I suppose that they really couldn't come galloping to the defense of Gondor any more than could the Dwarves or Erebor or the men of Dale: they were too busy fighting in or around their own lands. The Rivendell(and presumably Linden) elves seem to be more inactive--they're weary of Middle-Earth and many of them are just biding their time to leave. But they do play an active role in supporting the Dunedain in their defense of the few habitable places left in Eriador, not to mention their fostering of Aragorn, Valandil and possibly others. Earlier in the Third Age they were quite active against Angmar and they did fight alongside men of both Gondor and Arthedain(and what's left of Cardolan?) against the Witchking. It is Cirdan's Elves who search for and find Arvedui amount the Ice-men of Forochel. And forces from Rivendell and Lindon fight with the armies from Arthedain and Gondor. Perhaps by the time of the third age they were too few and too weary to do much else? Or perhaps they too were busy defending their realms from the various beasts and "ruffians" that were marauding around Eriador? This is just the Third Age. Of course in the Second Age there was the Last Alliance, and the entire Silmarillion is an account of the Elves of Beleriand fighting a centuries-long war against Morgoth. Appendices A and B in the LOTR is the source of a lot of this information--there are probably others as well.

01-12-2007, 10:53 AM	#5
goldfinger Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: KC, Missouri Posts: 60	Wayland, go read Appendix A and B. They will tell you all about it.

01-12-2007, 03:14 AM	#7
Selmo Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Shire (Staffordshire), United Kingdom Posts: 273	Sauron's forces fought major battles with the elves of both Mirkwood and Lorien at the same time as the assault on Minas Tirith, pressumably to prevent the elves coming to the aid of Gondor. They are refered to (very briefly) in The Tale of Years in the appendices to The Lord of The Rings. .