LOTR vs. Other Fantasy - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

AragornII · 09-11-2005, 05:23 PM

Has anyone read any other books that are similar to LOTR, like they use similar names or ideas? If so, share them.

The series that jumped out at me recently was the Inheritance Trilogy, whose second book, Eldest, just came out a few weeks ago. There are certain similarities between it and LOTR. First, they both involve elves, dwarves, and humans. The elves existed first, then the dwarves were made, then the men came sailing in on shps, just like in LOTR. Second, both villains are a person who was a part of a good organization (Sauron with the Maia, Galbatorix with the Riders) and turned evil. Third, the main character is an orphan raiswd by extended family (Frodo by Bilbo, and Eragon by Garrow). Both main characters find a rare important item (Frodo the Ring, and Eragon, the dragon egg). The main characters are the only ones who can do what needs to be done to defeat evil. Also, both the main characters have sidekicks that are with them the whole time (Frodo has Sam and Eragon Saphira). Those are some of the main similarities.

There are a few smaller similarities too. Both stories involve black cloaked evil creatures (Ringwraith and Ra'zac). I also noticed similarities in names. Morgothal(Morgoth in LOTR) is the name of one of the dwarf gods. Elessari(Elessar in LOTR) is one of Council of Elders in the Varden.

If anyone has any other simalarities in Inheritance or any other books, please share.

Alcarillo · 09-11-2005, 05:36 PM

My copy of Eragon is filled with post-it notes that point to Tolkien allusions. I have the copy with a map and a section on the languages in back (some sort of special edition)

The map has place names such as Ardwen and Eldor, too Tolkien-style for me to feel comfortable with. The town Melian also comes to mind.

On page 15, one of Horst's sons is named Baldor.

On page 32, we hear the name of a province: Inzilbêth, the birthplace of the antagonist.

On 49, we hear of elves coming over the sea in silver ships.

On page 58, two dragons' names are Vanilor and Eridor, too close to Valinor and Eriador for my liking.

On page 104, Brom begins to act like Gandalf, especially when it comes to blowing smoke-rings.

On 168, the place name Ninor is mentioned. It might be original to Paolini, but to me it sounds like Nienor.

On 184, there is a man named Brand.

All the way to 391, there are some rather large urgals (ie, orcs). They remind me of Uruk-hai.

I might post some more later.

EDIT: AragornII, are the names Elessari and Morgothal from the second book? I haven't read that one yet.

AragornII · 09-11-2005, 06:05 PM

Yes, Alcarillo, they are from the second book. I think their might be another one too, but I forget.

BTW Alcarillo, you against Paolini and other writers using Tolkien allusions? That's kinda the impression I got from your post. I'm not really against it, but I'm not really for it, so I guess I'm just neutral. I just noted those things.

Another thing is that the elves live in a big forest (Du Weldenvarden vs. Lothlorien and Mirkwood) and the dwarves live in mountains (Beor Mts. vs Misty, the lonely Mt)

Alcarillo · 09-11-2005, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AragornII

BTW Alcarillo, you against Paolini and other writers using Tolkien allusions? That's kinda the impression I got from your post. I'm not really against it, but I'm not really for it, so I guess I'm just neutral. I just noted those things.

I suppose that little allusions are okay; they're like little hidden nuggets for LotR fans. Too subtle for the movie-goer to pick up, but like bold neon lights for avid readers of the books.

But when you begin to take major themes, such as elves coming from across the sea, that's when I feel that a line has been crossed.

Elladan and Elrohir · 09-11-2005, 10:04 PM

I'm afraid that outside of LOTR and the rest of the Tolkien Legendarium (great word BTW), my experience in reading fantasy is limited to Lewis' CoN, Ted Dekker's Circle Trilogy, Michael Warden's Gideon's Dawn, Gilbert Morris' Seven Sleepers series, and Brian Jacques' Redwall books. None of which are really comparable at all with LOTR.

As an aspiring writer, one of my long-term goals is to someday write a fantasy/mythology/epic, that rivals Tolkien while being as independent from his work as I can get. Quite possibly an impossible task. I don't think even the great Greek, Roman, Finnish, Norse, etc. myths compare with the Silmarillion. Just IMHO, though.

AragornII · 09-12-2005, 04:50 PM

I guess, Alcarillo, that this just proves that no one can write anything greater then or equal to LOTR without using at least some of the ideas.

P.S. They both have dragons, although Inheritance centers more around dragons than LOTR.

09-11-2005, 05:23 PM	#1
AragornII Wight Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Concluding negotiations Posts: 103	LOTR vs. Other Fantasy Has anyone read any other books that are similar to LOTR, like they use similar names or ideas? If so, share them. The series that jumped out at me recently was the Inheritance Trilogy, whose second book, Eldest, just came out a few weeks ago. There are certain similarities between it and LOTR. First, they both involve elves, dwarves, and humans. The elves existed first, then the dwarves were made, then the men came sailing in on shps, just like in LOTR. Second, both villains are a person who was a part of a good organization (Sauron with the Maia, Galbatorix with the Riders) and turned evil. Third, the main character is an orphan raiswd by extended family (Frodo by Bilbo, and Eragon by Garrow). Both main characters find a rare important item (Frodo the Ring, and Eragon, the dragon egg). The main characters are the only ones who can do what needs to be done to defeat evil. Also, both the main characters have sidekicks that are with them the whole time (Frodo has Sam and Eragon Saphira). Those are some of the main similarities. There are a few smaller similarities too. Both stories involve black cloaked evil creatures (Ringwraith and Ra'zac). I also noticed similarities in names. Morgothal(Morgoth in LOTR) is the name of one of the dwarf gods. Elessari(Elessar in LOTR) is one of Council of Elders in the Varden. If anyone has any other simalarities in Inheritance or any other books, please share. __________________ From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken; The crownless again shall be king.

09-11-2005, 05:36 PM	#2
Alcarillo Shadow of the Past Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minas Mor-go Posts: 1,007	My copy of Eragon is filled with post-it notes that point to Tolkien allusions. I have the copy with a map and a section on the languages in back (some sort of special edition) The map has place names such as Ardwen and Eldor, too Tolkien-style for me to feel comfortable with. The town Melian also comes to mind. On page 15, one of Horst's sons is named Baldor. On page 32, we hear the name of a province: Inzilbêth, the birthplace of the antagonist. On 49, we hear of elves coming over the sea in silver ships. On page 58, two dragons' names are Vanilor and Eridor, too close to Valinor and Eriador for my liking. On page 104, Brom begins to act like Gandalf, especially when it comes to blowing smoke-rings. On 168, the place name Ninor is mentioned. It might be original to Paolini, but to me it sounds like Nienor. On 184, there is a man named Brand. All the way to 391, there are some rather large urgals (ie, orcs). They remind me of Uruk-hai. I might post some more later. EDIT: AragornII, are the names Elessari and Morgothal from the second book? I haven't read that one yet. Last edited by Alcarillo; 09-11-2005 at 05:46 PM.

09-11-2005, 06:05 PM	#3
AragornII Wight Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Concluding negotiations Posts: 103	Yes, Alcarillo, they are from the second book. I think their might be another one too, but I forget. BTW Alcarillo, you against Paolini and other writers using Tolkien allusions? That's kinda the impression I got from your post. I'm not really against it, but I'm not really for it, so I guess I'm just neutral. I just noted those things. Another thing is that the elves live in a big forest (Du Weldenvarden vs. Lothlorien and Mirkwood) and the dwarves live in mountains (Beor Mts. vs Misty, the lonely Mt) __________________ From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken; The crownless again shall be king.

09-11-2005, 10:04 PM	#5
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	I'm afraid that outside of LOTR and the rest of the Tolkien Legendarium (great word BTW), my experience in reading fantasy is limited to Lewis' CoN, Ted Dekker's Circle Trilogy, Michael Warden's Gideon's Dawn, Gilbert Morris' Seven Sleepers series, and Brian Jacques' Redwall books. None of which are really comparable at all with LOTR. As an aspiring writer, one of my long-term goals is to someday write a fantasy/mythology/epic, that rivals Tolkien while being as independent from his work as I can get. Quite possibly an impossible task. I don't think even the great Greek, Roman, Finnish, Norse, etc. myths compare with the Silmarillion. Just IMHO, though. __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

09-12-2005, 04:50 PM	#6
AragornII Wight Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Concluding negotiations Posts: 103	I guess, Alcarillo, that this just proves that no one can write anything greater then or equal to LOTR without using at least some of the ideas. P.S. They both have dragons, although Inheritance centers more around dragons than LOTR. __________________ From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken; The crownless again shall be king.