I need some reasons...

I’m not entirely sure if this belongs in this forum but one of my friends posed an interesting question after I told her that I’m trying to learn Elvish. She said, “Talking about Middle-earth and all that relates to it is great, but when it comes to speaking elf, I think it's becoming a little bit crazy. I've heard that one of the goals Tolkien had was insert, give a reason for the elf language to live, when he wrote the book. It's nice to know, but YOU actually learn it! Personally, I think it's a waste of time and energy to learn it, even if Middle-Earth is a passion to you. It’s not like it can be useful to anything.”

This made me think. She has a point, somehow. Why exactly do I learn this language? I gave her some reasons. I told her that the tongues of Middle-earth are art, and as some may find delight in music or painting or literature, others can simply enjoy a language per se, as a living system, maybe finding pleasure in admiration of its beauty. Others can really love languages.

But she still wasn’t convinced. She just kept on saying that it’s useless. That rather than learning Elvish, why not just learn Latin or any other languages. I don’t know what to tell her anymore. Can you smart people here give me some ideas?

[Nurumaiel]

Why, my dear, if you want to learn it and enjoy learning it and it is not harming you in any way, isn't that reason enough?

I attempted learning Elvish at one point, and though I never came along too far, it gave me a good first grasp of exactly how a language worked, as Tolkien did construct it as a real language. Consequently when I began learning Latin, and one or two other languages, I had an idea of what I was doing, however vague, and furthermore I had already worked out, through studying the Elvish languages, a study method that was best for me.

And so it very well can be useful for something.

Nobody has ever asked me why I eat ice cream. Isn't it a waste of time to eat ice cream? Why, what is it useful for? Sure, fruit is a very useful and healthy thing to eat, but ice cream, now. If anyone ever asked me why I eat ice cream, I should reply: "Why... because I like to eat it. It's enjoyable."

Now, Latin has many ways of being useful (and, as I mentioned before, Elvish has some ways, as well), like fruit, so why learn Elvish? "Why... because I like to elarn it. It's enjoyable."

[Mithalwen]

Well I must admit that while I do love languages and Tolkien was a major influence on me wanting to study linguistics, I think in many ways I agree with your friend.

I love the vocabularies in the Silmarillion and HoME and trying to decipher the meanings of names, but given that there are so few substantial Elvish texts in the works, I am not motivated to learn elvish to converse with people.

However it is a harmless occupation - I have always wanted to learn Latin properly but keep feeling another modern language would be more useful. That said I use the language I studied for 12 years so rarely that utility may not be a justification. There are many seemingly pointless hobbies that people enjoy - if you feel it worth while to spend your time thus in order to communicate with like minded folk it is up to you. Possibly no more eccentric than Esperanto. Also you might pick up a working knowledge or the source languages for Quenya and Sindarin (Finnish and Welsh which might be marginally more useful)

However the only real caveat is that I did read (possibly an urban myth) that psychiatric hospitals are starting to have to employ speakers of Elvish and Klingon to communicate with patients who have taken the whole thing a little too far....

[Lalwendë]

Tolkien's use of his languages in the book went deep into the very heart and meaning of his stories, so if you do manage to gain a working knowledge of the Elvish languages then I can only see that as a good thing. You would be able to recognise roots in words, particularly in names, which may help in understanding the history and nature of those characters a little better. The languages are all part of the story, and I admire anyone who has the ability to learn them. Yes, it could be seen by some as 'going too far', but then if you are interested in anything then why not pursue it as far as you wish?

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

However the only real caveat is that I did read (possibly an urban myth) that psychiatric hospitals are starting to have to employ speakers of Elvish and Klingon to communicate with patients who have taken the whole thing a little too far....

That has to be urban myth! It did make me laugh though. A few weeks ago at work I admitted I didn't have a passport and when they asked me if there weren't any countries I fancied visiting I only half-jokingly replied "a passport won't get me to Middle-Earth". Still, it was early in the morning and I hadn't yet had my second breakfast...

[Mithalwen]

Maybe not as daft as it sounds......

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2003/05/13/071222.php

What do you mean no passport? Not a current one or never had one? !!!!!!!! But it is such a small country .. "you can't swing a cat without putting it through customs"?

My old one got me into New Zealand ....... which isn't far off.....

[Assasin]

I love elvish.... it's so flowy, and pretty. It's very hard to speak though. As long as you don't go mad while trying to learn it, I would say go for it!

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

What do you mean no passport? Not a current one or never had one? !!!!!!!! But it is such a small country .. "you can't swing a cat without putting it through customs"?

I've never had one! The seaside is quite far enough for me.

This story about needing Klingon and Elvish interpreters, it could be another case of 'red tape'. You can get all kinds of allowances for being able to speak unusual languages if you are a government employee, even if you never get to use them; this is particularly true in jobcentres. The point is that they must have the capacity to cope if someone does make contact who can only use x language. Though I'm sure if I requested to learn Elvish then I'd be chased out of the building.

The recent story here of someone who was teaching teenagers Elvish isn't all that barmy in my opinion. If someone isn't interested in learning but is interested in LotR and responds to learning Elvish then it can be a 'way in' to learning other, more conventional subjects.

[Nimrodel_9]

I love Elvish and though I don't speak much I enjoy memorizing lines just so that when someone asks if I can speak it, I can say something. My brother says the same thing though. I don't see it as a waste of time. Just part of my obsession.

Oh my gosh, Assasin! You just barely joined and already you have over 100 posts! *bows to Assasin and scuttles away*

[Encaitare]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

However the only real caveat is that I did read (possibly an urban myth) that psychiatric hospitals are starting to have to employ speakers of Elvish and Klingon to communicate with patients who have taken the whole thing a little too far....

It's not a myth, at least, not an internet-only myth. That article was published in my newspaper not too long ago. Aside from being a rather liberal paper (and rapidly decaying due to its being dumbed down for the masses) it's more or less reputable, or so I've been told. I, for one, only look at it on occasion, usually for Dave Barry, since any other section is likely to depress me. But, I digress. I have that article clipped out and taped to my wall, because it proves that there is hope for me if this whole music thing doesn't work out.

It's not a waste of time if you enjoy it. You can only grow smarter because of it, since you'll be working with a language completely alien to most people. You might not get to speak it to anyone, but you will definitely acquire further language skills, which is never bad.

And tell her that Fordim Hedgethistle says *sheesh*.

And upon hearing so she will hang her head in shame! Hah!

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Encaitare

It's not a myth, at least, not an internet-only myth. That article was published in my newspaper not too long ago.

Don't believe everything you read. Note that I tend towards skepticism, and so even the following link can't be trusted...

http://www.snopes.com/humor/iftrue/klingon.asp

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I would dispute this... I attended a rugby international in Wellington

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

You would if Elvish lexicography was the national sport and appealed to the same demographic.

(Emphasis added)

Your position is illogical. A sport is a sport is a sport. Crowd hooliganism is caused by the spectators not by the sport itself.

My last word, as this has now become entirely off-topic.

[Encaitare]

Originally Posted by alatar

Don't believe everything you read. Note that I tend towards skepticism, and so even the following link can't be trusted...

Noooooo! My career!

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

somehow I don't think that spending hours talking about elvish would be regarded as an acceptable way to pass the working day.....

It's entirely acceptable in my job, in fact such discussions are encouraged. In fact, part of my interview consisted of a discussion about The Silmarillion.

[elronds_daughter]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

It's entirely acceptable in my job, in fact such discussions are encouraged. In fact, part of my interview consisted of a discussion about The Silmarillion.

Heavens, Lalwende, what, may I ask, is your job? Whatever it is, I want it!

I don't consider learning Elvish a 'waste of time.' It's a hobby, and uses can usually be found for any hobby. There, that's my two cents, do with it as you will.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by elronds_daughter

Heavens, Lalwende, what, may I ask, is your job? Whatever it is, I want it!

Oh, I'm only in Civil Servitude. I'm a pen pusher, a beauracrat, a minion of her majesty. But my boss is rather keen on Tolkien too so conversation naturally turns to such matters as Elvish languages. I think he values having a decent natter highly, which is what every boss ought to be like in my opinion.