What are the Two Towers? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Nilpaurion Felagund · 01-17-2005, 01:00 AM

You have a personal title, and you do not know this? Mr. Wight, I think someone needs to be stripped of a title!

Hush, Adam.

I know one of them is bound to be Orthanc (Book 3's Tower). But what about the other? Is it Minas Morgul (where Frodo, Sam, and Sméagol passed through to Mordor)? Or is it Barad-dûr (as said in the movie)?

Or am I wrong in my ideas entirely and should stick to reading the tabloids? Help!

Fingolfin II · 01-17-2005, 01:37 AM

I always thought it was Orthanc and Barad-Dur. But now that you mention it, it could be Cirith Ungol. However, I'm leaning towards it being Orthanc and Barad-Dur, which are the two main strongholds of the two supreme antagonists. It makes more sense and besides, Barad-Dur is more 'important' in the sense that it is the residence of Sauron and is reflective of his strength, whereas Cirth Ungol is a subsidiary of his power and the residence of his lieutenant. Still, you never know! (Well, I guess you do, if someone answers this question better than me).

Nilpaurion Felagund · 01-17-2005, 02:00 AM

Yes, Barad-dûr was one of my choices, because, along with Orthanc, it is the most important tower for evil.

But I wonder if the immediate doesn't have anything to do with the choice of names. And, since Frodo passed Minas Morgul, that might be another plausible choice.

Oh, and Fin2, Frodo and Sam have yet to personally encounter Cirith Ungol. So I don't think it's one of the choices. Although:

Quote:

Still, you never know!
(Well, I guess you do, if someone answers this question better than me). (Fin2)

applies to me, to.

Firefoot · 01-17-2005, 06:32 AM

I've always wondered if the term didn't refer to something more symbollic (as well as the towers themselves). TTT is the only book that is completely split between Frodo and Sam and the rest of the Fellowship. So maybe it refers to the two different directions the book takes? The two really don't touch each other at all, except for a few references ("I wonder where Frodo and Sam are now" type things). Even the first part of RotK is much more in touch with Frodo and Sam and the Ring (partially helped by Faramir's news) than the first part of TTT, where they don't seem to be as big of an immediate concern.

So that's my theory, make of it what you will.

Soronumë · 01-17-2005, 06:45 AM

Barad-Dur and Orthanc, that's my guess too... Since Sauron and Saruman were connected to eachother by palantírs...
But of course, I can be (and that's most likely that I am) wrong...

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-17-2005, 07:34 AM

Well, it appears that Tolkien himself was not wholly decided on the issue and preferred that it be left ambiguous. If pressed, however, it seems that he would have nominated Orthanc and the Tower of Cirith Ungol, although his original jacket design depicted Orthanc and Minas Morgul.

Here are some illuminating extracts from The Letters on this issue:

Quote:

The Two Towers gets as near as possible to finding a title to cover the widely divergent Books 3 and 4; and can be left ambiguous — it might refer to Isengard and Barad-dûr, or to Minas Tirith and
B[arad-dûr]; or Isengard and Cirith Ungol.

Letter #140 (to Rayner Unwin, dated 17 August 1953)

Quote:

I am not really happy about the title 'the Two Towers'. It must if there is any real reference in it to Vol II refer to Orthanc and The Tower of Cirith Ungol. But since there is so much made of the basic opposition of the Dark Tower and Minas Tirith, that seems very misleading.

Letter #143 (to Rayner Unwin, dated 22 January 1954)

In the editorial notes, it states:

Quote:

In his original design for the jacket of The Two Towers the towers are certainly Orthanc and Minas Morgul ... Minas Morgul is a white tower, with a thin waning moon above it, in reference to it's original name, Minas Ithil, the Tower of the Rising Moon.

The first of the quotes above also touches upon the symbolic nature of the title pointed out by Firefoot.

Since I do not have my books with me, the quotes above are provided courtesy of Diamond18's post in the second of the threads linked to below, all of which provide further thoughts on this point:

Two Towers?

Which towers are the Two Towers?

Towers

01-17-2005, 01:37 AM	#2
Fingolfin II Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where you want me to be Posts: 1,036	I always thought it was Orthanc and Barad-Dur. But now that you mention it, it could be Cirith Ungol. However, I'm leaning towards it being Orthanc and Barad-Dur, which are the two main strongholds of the two supreme antagonists. It makes more sense and besides, Barad-Dur is more 'important' in the sense that it is the residence of Sauron and is reflective of his strength, whereas Cirth Ungol is a subsidiary of his power and the residence of his lieutenant. Still, you never know! (Well, I guess you do, if someone answers this question better than me). __________________ Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.

01-17-2005, 06:45 AM	#5
Soronumë Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25	Barad-Dur and Orthanc, that's my guess too... Since Sauron and Saruman were connected to eachother by palantírs... But of course, I can be (and that's most likely that I am) wrong... __________________ And she was the child of stars, bearing their light on her forehead. Wisdom lies in her eyes and love in her heart.

01-17-2005, 01:00 AM	#1
Nilpaurion Felagund Scion of The Faithful Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The brink, where hope and despair are akin. [The Philippines] Posts: 5,312	What are the Two Towers? You have a personal title, and you do not know this? Mr. Wight, I think someone needs to be stripped of a title! Hush, Adam. I know one of them is bound to be Orthanc (Book 3's Tower). But what about the other? Is it Minas Morgul (where Frodo, Sam, and Sméagol passed through to Mordor)? Or is it Barad-dûr (as said in the movie)? Or am I wrong in my ideas entirely and should stick to reading the tabloids? Help! __________________ フェンリス鴨 (Fenrisu Kamo) The plot, cut, defeated. I intend to copy this sig forever - so far so good...

01-17-2005, 06:32 AM	#4
Firefoot Illusionary Holbytla Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 7,547	I've always wondered if the term didn't refer to something more symbollic (as well as the towers themselves). TTT is the only book that is completely split between Frodo and Sam and the rest of the Fellowship. So maybe it refers to the two different directions the book takes? The two really don't touch each other at all, except for a few references ("I wonder where Frodo and Sam are now" type things). Even the first part of RotK is much more in touch with Frodo and Sam and the Ring (partially helped by Faramir's news) than the first part of TTT, where they don't seem to be as big of an immediate concern. So that's my theory, make of it what you will.