The Return of the Flashback

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

*flashback* A pair of tongs are seen pouring a heated liquid into a mould.
Narrator: It began with the forging of the Great Rings...

*flashback* Voices are heard from the Misty Mountains.
Gandalf: You cannot pass!

*flashback* We see a young hobbit, Sméagol, gently fingering a worm, and as the camera zooms out, we see that he and his cousin Déagol, are sitting in a small boat on the river Anduin
Déagol: Sméagol! I've got one! I've got a fish, Sméag!


All three Lord of the Rings films begin with a short scene telling about a past time, and flashbacks are used very much through the whole trilogy. In the books, as we know, after the fellowship practically split in three at Rauros, Tolkien concentrated first on the other group and then the other. Therefore he jumped back in time as he in turn followed Frodo & Sam and the others. On film the storyline is otherwise chronological, but there are lots of short flashbacks. Now, I didn't count, how many flashbacks there are (if anyone has too much spare time, then be my guest...), but quite many, anyway.

The relationship between Aragorn and Arwen, for example, is pretty much based on several flashbacks, whereas in the book that's appendix stuff. So, how do you feel about those scenes? Were they good and did they contribute the story telling? Can you come up with a better option for flashbacks?
Share your thoughts!

[Boromir88]

Nice post Ungoliant, I don't really mind most the flashbacks, but some I do have a slight problem with.

There are flashbacks in TTT, and ROTK, with Boromir's death. These are well placed, we get the flashback with Faramir remembering Boromir, and then we are in ROTK with denethor and Pippin sees the "flashback." These I believe are well placed, it's suitable that Faramir, Pippin, and Denethor would have flashbacks of Boromir.

The beginning Flashbacks are all good, but some aren't placed well. The prologue, I think that was great, despite the wrong info, PJ did a good job in creating a story, and introducing the actual story to those people who had no idea what LOTR is. I liked TTT, flashback with Frodo's dream, and Gandalf and the Balrog. I even like it better how they made it one of Frodo's dreams, we see Frodo have a few nights of restless sleep, and it would only make sense he would have this dream of Gandalf and the Balrog. The ROTK flashback, I enjoy, some people don't like it. I don't feel it's well placed, maybe should have gone in the first movie, inserted after Isildurs death and before that little bit with Gollum. I think that would have suited fairly nice, but it's not a big complaint of mine. I think it's placing in ROTK, is good, not the best, but I'm not the director.

The Arwen/Aragorn flashbacks I can only take so much of. I know PJ wants to show the love between the two, but I think we get it already. Keep some of the flashbacks in there, but also eliminate some, it's like they are telepathically cybering with eachother.

[Neferchoirwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

The ROTK flashback, I enjoy, some people don't like it. I don't feel it's well placed, maybe should have gone in the first movie, inserted after Isildurs death and before that little bit with Gollum.

I agree. I was somehow disturbed by the close-up of Smeagol, and not to mention the vision of erstwhile rotting fish. Either take it out, or do something else with it.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

The Arwen/Aragorn flashbacks I can only take so much of. I know PJ wants to show the love between the two, but I think we get it already. Keep some of the flashbacks in there, but also eliminate some, it's like they are telepathically cybering with eachother.

But I think that that's the point of the "flashback." I don't really think of it as a flashback, though. I always thought that it was in the moment. After all, it was way better than the Arwen Warrior Princess bit. This scene shows the depth of their relationship, that it goes beyond just being "together" physically.

[Nimrodel_9]

I think flashbacks are a great idea, but some people do not. In The Two Towers Extended Edition`s Appendices, someone (I don`t remember who it was, probably a publisher) told Tolkien that he should not use flashbacks in story telling (He was refering to Merry and Pippin`s story about the flooding of Isengard), but Tolkien did it anyway. I think it is just fine, as long as there are 2 or more groups, or if someone is recounting something that someone said or did. Did that make sense?

[Encaitare]

I thought that nearly all of the flashbacks were excellent. The Aragorn/Arwen ones are fine so long as you don't think about them too much and I loved the flashback telling how Smeagol became Gollum.

I think it was necessary to include flashbacks, simply because of the depth of the story. It would not have made sense to have people explaining things to no end when they can be seen in a tidy little flashback scene.

[The Only Real Estel]

I had liked nearly all of the flashbacks & thought the Boromir/Faramir flashbacks in the TTT EE were great.

Keep some of the flashbacks in there, but also eliminate some, it's like they are telepathically cybering with eachother

That leads me to two points. I wasn't a huge fan of all the Aragorn/Arwen flashbacks, but they weren't to bad.
The one flashback I really didn't like very well was the 'telepathically cybering' one between Galadriel & Elrond. I didn't mind the Elves being at Helm's Deep, & I understood the logic between Galadriel & Elrond's conversation, but I think PJ went a little to far with the telepathic idea. A lot of people I know are confused by the scene & they're always asking me if 'those two' can always talk to eachother like that, etc. I just don't think it was done very well.

By the way, I also liked the one 'flashforward' that I can remember, when Elrond was talking to Arwen about Aragorn & they flash ahead to a dead Aragorn & Arwen walking through the trees. That's one of my favorite parts, for some reason.

[Boromir88]

Essex:

It was when he's dragging Pippin by the scruff of his neck and throwing him out the door with his immortal line "Go now, and die in what way seems best to you. " It was delivered in a totally different context to the one I always imagined when reading the books. In the books, Denethor (to me) sounded sincere and heart felt, but in the film, he seems almost as if he is toying with Pippin and (perhaps) ridiculing him.

I felt the same way too, in fact it even says when Denethor first meets Pippin, that Denethor is "touched" by it.

A pale smile, like a gleam of cold sun on a winter's evening, passed over the old man's face; but he bent his head and held out his hand, laying the shards of the horn aside.

I wonder, if this small paragraph here, we can see where Pippin sort of "somewhat" takes the place of Boromir. First off, he smiles, then he sets aside Boromir's horn, so there is no doubt this "warmed" Denethor's grieving heart, and I wonder if Denethor sort of used Pippin to replace Boromir, but as we know it was also to get info out of him. It's a tricky question, and as you said, it all depends on how you read it.

[gorthaur_cruel]

The Smeagol flashback was rather nice, IMO, except that part where he bites the fish. Creepy.

I think the main reason PJ added in that Smeagol flashback was to emphasize the pity one should feel for him. Except for a brief talk between Frodo and Gollum in TT, Gollum is just seen as a nasty, slimy creature to non-book readers. Gollum's flashback makes it clear how the Ring took control of him, and that he deserves some pity. I especially like how they showed the current Gollum right after the flashback, to emphasize this.

The Fellowship prologue was my favorite though. Starting off with a huge battle scene lets people know that this isn't a boring movie you're about to watch. And PJ only shows you a glimpse of the battle, so as to not spoil the "real" battles.

Gandalf's fight with the balrog was also great, in that it continued from a previously-seen scene. But it had a major flaw, which stops it from being my favorite flashback. It practically gives away that Gandalf's still alive right at the beginning of the movie. The only thing people have to wonder is: "How did he survive and when/how will he return?"

[Neferchoirwen]

The fight with the Balrog was, in a word, glorious . However, I find it such of a tease when he recounted what happened to him after. The story of that doesn't help much with the plot of the movies, but it's another side of LotR that mystifies this constant LotR reader, and I can't help but wonder about it.

It's funny to think that Gandalf is probably the frequently flash-backed character in all of the movies, I think. And it says so much about him.

[ArathorofBarahir]

I enjoy the flashbacks, all of them.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

So, it was me, who had too much free time to count the flashbacks. Or at least those in FotR and TTT EE. And the final count is 16 (If I haven't forgotten anything).
Here they are:
FotR:

1. Prologue
2. Bag End: Gandalf talking to Frodo: flashback to Gollum in Barad-Dur
3. Rivendell: fb to Gandalf's escape
4. Rivendell: Elrond talking with Gandalf: fb to Isildur and Mount Doom
5. Anduin: the gift-giving scene

TTT:

1. Gandalf fights the Balrog
2. Rohan: Aragorn tracking the hobbits: flashback to Pippin at the orcs' camp
3. Rohan: Aragorn tracking the hobbits: 3 separate flashbacks -> hobbits meet Treebeard
4. Fangorn: 3 Hunters meet Gandalf: fb to Gandalf fighting the Balrog
5. Going to Helm's Deep: Aragorn's dream flashback to Arwen in Rivendell
6. Going to Helm's Deep: Eowyn talking to Aragorn: fb to Elrond conversing with Aragorn and Aragorn conversing with Arwen ("our time here is ending...")
7. Rivendell: Elrond talking with Arwen: flashforward to Aragorn's death
8. Ithilien: Faramir thinking: Faramir sees Boromir's boat floating by
9. Ithilien: Faramir thinking: the victory of Osgiliath

What do you say about that?