Military Topic - All Details Welcome - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Etharius · 04-23-2004, 03:48 AM

After some consideration of where this topic should be opened, I decided it must go in the Books forum because of simply the level of detail that i will soon ask of you.

I have only so far read LotR and I have decided to take on a project that requires a very good and realistic understanding of the Military organisation, skills and all other details of all of the races involved in fighting in The LotR.

The project or course being, a game.

I need to know which races used which weapons, how effectively and any other comments you may have. Whether they are the Orcs of Mordor or Gandalf the White himself, i need information.

However, in order to make this information immediately effective, i would ask you kind fellows to spare information in a comparative tense. For example, you may choose to say "Boromir is very strong compared to most normal men".

I am aware that there is literature available for details on the army and composition of the Rohirrim, but I have other reading on priority.

That is objective 1 of this topic. Objective 2 is somewhat of a task to whoever is willing, so its more of a challenge. You don't HAVE TO attempt it.

I need you to do some serious thinking here. I need a complete (or incomplete) list of all of the forces in middle earth with beside them, a score. A score will need to be provided for the following attributes necessary for war:

> Fighting- (The extent to which this person can inflict effective damage to another person in battle, how hard they hit, consider their weapon and physical strength)

> Defence- (How hard this person is to maim, beat down and kill in a fight)

> Speed- (How fast this being can run)

> Courage- (How determined is this being in its goal? What will it take to scare it?)

Those are the attributes. Its up to you really considering the actual number to use for the scoring, but you may find that using a maximum of 10 is good enough and easy. Thanks for considering this for me. As I don't have a confident knowledge in the topic myself, I may be able to give you some examples of such forces and heroes in the story:

Forces:

The Guard of Minas Tirith
Riders of Rohan
Rohan Foot Soldiers
Moria Orcs
Prince Imrahils Soldiers

Heroes:

Saruman the White
Lurtz
Aragorn
Merry
Gwaihir

Thats it. Thanks again people for sharing your knowledge. Good luck and i'll see you on the field!

Numenorean · 04-23-2004, 04:57 AM

Greetings Etharius thats a big old project you're setting yourself here, but good luck anyway.
Have you deliberately omitted the Northern Dúnedain - Aragorns kinsfolk - whom were scattered around Arnor and had a base at the Angle between the Rivers Hoarwell and Loudwater?
In military terms the Dúnedain of the North (Rangers) although fairly few in number, were tremendously strong, fell and valiant in combat, by all accounts a force to be reckoned with.

Firefoot · 04-23-2004, 05:12 AM

I'm somewhat confused on one point: are you trying to use all the forces of a particular battle or the entire War of the Ring or what?

It sounds like you are basing this on the book and not the movie, and if this is the case, I would advise you to remove Lurtz being that he is no where mentioned in the book. Also, I would add Gandalf. And if you have Merry, maybe you should have Éowyn too?

For your "speed" topic, you can take into account that the Rohirrim, Gandalf, and the Dunédain had horses, so they would move quite a bit faster than Orcs or the Guard of Minas Tirith.

"Courage": The Guard of Minas Tirith and the Rohirrim are what I would call courageous. More so than Orcs, who aren't fighting for anything other than they have to as tools of Sauron, Saruman, etc.

To add to your "forces" list, Sauron's Orcs, and also the Nazgûl should be listed somewhere.

Hope this helps!

Hookbill the Goomba · 04-23-2004, 09:50 AM

You mustn’t forget Hill Trolls, they don’t turn to stone in daylight, and only mountain trolls do that. Ents may be a good Idea, depending on if you are doing a to the book game or a chose random armies to fight each other type thing.
How are you making it? Are you using a per programmed games design soft where like "Multimedia Fusion" and "The Games factory" or are you going to use a programming system like "C++" or something like that?

Any way, some more suggestions... Easterlings perhaps, Beorlings, Dwarves, Elves (Many different kinds... The Galadrim for example would specialise in archery) Eagles, wargs and Goblins. There are several others that you may wish to use depending on what type of game you make, these include;
-Radagast, (To help the Eagles)
-Alatar and Pallando, the blue wizards (As kind of back up wizards for Gandalf)
-Sauron
-Hobbits
-Aragorn
-The oath breakers

Hope this helps you.

04-23-2004, 10:28 AM

Good Forces:

The Dunedain
The Elves of Mirkwood
Dwarves of Erebor
Men of Dale
The Rohirrim
Guard of the Citadel (Minas Tirith)
Armies of the Lords of Gondor (Imrahil, Forlong, etc.)

Bad Forces:

Nazgul
Moria Orcs
Barrow-wights
Uruk-Hai
Mordor Orcs
Haradrim
Easterlings

Good Captains/Leaders:

Aragorn
Gandalf
Theoden
Eomer
Erkenbrand
Treebeard
Halbarad
Legolas
Faramir
Prince Imrahil

Bad Leaders:

Mouth of Sauron
Witch-King of Angmar
Saruman
Shagrat
Gorbag
Haradrim General
Easterling General

That's not complete, I know. I'll try and update later...

Saraphim · 04-23-2004, 04:20 PM

I know you said not to request books, but the absolute best book for this kind of thing would be Weapons and Warfare, by Chris Smith. Its got pretty much everything you want, minus the fact that it is derived from the movies. It's still good, though.

04-23-2004, 03:48 AM	#1
Etharius Animated Skeleton Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: U.K. Posts: 34	Military Topic - All Details Welcome After some consideration of where this topic should be opened, I decided it must go in the Books forum because of simply the level of detail that i will soon ask of you. I have only so far read LotR and I have decided to take on a project that requires a very good and realistic understanding of the Military organisation, skills and all other details of all of the races involved in fighting in The LotR. The project or course being, a game. I need to know which races used which weapons, how effectively and any other comments you may have. Whether they are the Orcs of Mordor or Gandalf the White himself, i need information. However, in order to make this information immediately effective, i would ask you kind fellows to spare information in a comparative tense. For example, you may choose to say "Boromir is very strong compared to most normal men". I am aware that there is literature available for details on the army and composition of the Rohirrim, but I have other reading on priority. That is objective 1 of this topic. Objective 2 is somewhat of a task to whoever is willing, so its more of a challenge. You don't HAVE TO attempt it. I need you to do some serious thinking here. I need a complete (or incomplete) list of all of the forces in middle earth with beside them, a score. A score will need to be provided for the following attributes necessary for war: > Fighting- (The extent to which this person can inflict effective damage to another person in battle, how hard they hit, consider their weapon and physical strength) > Defence- (How hard this person is to maim, beat down and kill in a fight) > Speed- (How fast this being can run) > Courage- (How determined is this being in its goal? What will it take to scare it?) Those are the attributes. Its up to you really considering the actual number to use for the scoring, but you may find that using a maximum of 10 is good enough and easy. Thanks for considering this for me. As I don't have a confident knowledge in the topic myself, I may be able to give you some examples of such forces and heroes in the story: Forces: The Guard of Minas Tirith Riders of Rohan Rohan Foot Soldiers Moria Orcs Prince Imrahils Soldiers Heroes: Saruman the White Lurtz Aragorn Merry Gwaihir Thats it. Thanks again people for sharing your knowledge. Good luck and i'll see you on the field! __________________ < Wisdom, Strength, Honor >

04-23-2004, 04:57 AM	#2
Numenorean Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bay of Eldanna Posts: 94	Of the Northern Dúnedain? Greetings Etharius thats a big old project you're setting yourself here, but good luck anyway. Have you deliberately omitted the Northern Dúnedain - Aragorns kinsfolk - whom were scattered around Arnor and had a base at the Angle between the Rivers Hoarwell and Loudwater? In military terms the Dúnedain of the North (Rangers) although fairly few in number, were tremendously strong, fell and valiant in combat, by all accounts a force to be reckoned with. __________________ '…Avallónë, the haven of the Eldar upon Eressëa, easternmost of the Undying Lands, and thence at times the Firstborn still would come sailing to Númenor in oarless boats, as white birds flying from the sunset…'

04-23-2004, 09:50 AM	#4
Hookbill the Goomba Alive without breath Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: On A Cold Wind To Valhalla Posts: 5,912	You mustn’t forget Hill Trolls, they don’t turn to stone in daylight, and only mountain trolls do that. Ents may be a good Idea, depending on if you are doing a to the book game or a chose random armies to fight each other type thing. How are you making it? Are you using a per programmed games design soft where like "Multimedia Fusion" and "The Games factory" or are you going to use a programming system like "C++" or something like that? Any way, some more suggestions... Easterlings perhaps, Beorlings, Dwarves, Elves (Many different kinds... The Galadrim for example would specialise in archery) Eagles, wargs and Goblins. There are several others that you may wish to use depending on what type of game you make, these include; -Radagast, (To help the Eagles) -Alatar and Pallando, the blue wizards (As kind of back up wizards for Gandalf) -Sauron -Hobbits -Aragorn -The oath breakers Hope this helps you. __________________ I think that if you want facts, then The Downer Newspaper is probably the place to go. I know! I read it once. THE PHANTOM AND ALIEN: The Legend of the Golden Bus Ticket...

04-23-2004, 04:20 PM	#6
Saraphim Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The other side of freezing. Posts: 404	I know you said not to request books, but the absolute best book for this kind of thing would be Weapons and Warfare, by Chris Smith. Its got pretty much everything you want, minus the fact that it is derived from the movies. It's still good, though. __________________ I drink Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters! ~ Always remember: pillage BEFORE you burn.

04-23-2004, 05:12 AM	#3
Firefoot Illusionary Holbytla Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 7,547	I'm somewhat confused on one point: are you trying to use all the forces of a particular battle or the entire War of the Ring or what? It sounds like you are basing this on the book and not the movie, and if this is the case, I would advise you to remove Lurtz being that he is no where mentioned in the book. Also, I would add Gandalf. And if you have Merry, maybe you should have Éowyn too? For your "speed" topic, you can take into account that the Rohirrim, Gandalf, and the Dunédain had horses, so they would move quite a bit faster than Orcs or the Guard of Minas Tirith. "Courage": The Guard of Minas Tirith and the Rohirrim are what I would call courageous. More so than Orcs, who aren't fighting for anything other than they have to as tools of Sauron, Saruman, etc. To add to your "forces" list, Sauron's Orcs, and also the Nazgûl should be listed somewhere. Hope this helps!

04-23-2004, 10:28 AM	#5
Bloody Glamdring Guest Posts: n/a	Good Forces: The Dunedain The Elves of Mirkwood Dwarves of Erebor Men of Dale The Rohirrim Guard of the Citadel (Minas Tirith) Armies of the Lords of Gondor (Imrahil, Forlong, etc.) Bad Forces: Nazgul Moria Orcs Barrow-wights Uruk-Hai Mordor Orcs Haradrim Easterlings Good Captains/Leaders: Aragorn Gandalf Theoden Eomer Erkenbrand Treebeard Halbarad Legolas Faramir Prince Imrahil Bad Leaders: Mouth of Sauron Witch-King of Angmar Saruman Shagrat Gorbag Haradrim General Easterling General That's not complete, I know. I'll try and update later...