Another thing...Why did the elves not fight?

[Etharius]

I was pretty dissappointed at the elves in story of LotR. They didn't fight at Helms Deep or at Minas Tirith and neither at that other place. I think they are either wussies or stuck-up. Why were they not prepared to sacrifice themselves for the destruction of Sauron and the ring?

And the same goes for the Dwarves, although, i can understand those fellows.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

The Elves did fight. In fact, they had been doing little else for thousands and thousands of years.

[Maédhros]

But the Elves did fight.
From LOTR: Appendix B: The Tale of Years

After the fall of the Dark Tower and the passing of Sauron the Shadow was lifted from the hearts of all who opposed him but fear and despair fell upon his servants and allies. Three times Lórien had been assailed from Dol Guldur. but besides the valour of the elven people of that land the power that dwelt there was too great for any to overcome, unless Sauron had come there himself. Though grievous harm was done to the fair woods on the borders, the assaults were driven back; and when the Shadow passed, Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lórien over Anduin in many boats. They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed.
In the North also there had been war and evil. The realm of Thranduil was invaded. and there was long battle under the trees and great ruin of fire; but in the end Thranduil had the victory. And on the day of the New Year of the Elves. Celeborn and Thranduil met in the midst of the forest; and they renamed Mirkwood Eryn Lasgalen, The Wood of Greenleaves

It is a common misconception that people have that the Elves didn't fight at all. Remember that Sauron had forces in the North of ME (Dol Guldur) and the Elves who mostly dwelt there had to defend themselves. If they were to go (as the movie does) to fight in the south, who would have defended their own realms?

[doug*platypus]

Click Me.

[Elianna]

what was that for doug?...oh! for the "Lament of Elves" topic. Yes, Etharius, you should read that topic before you start calling elves wusses. Firefoot's Tolkien quote I find to be awesome.

To make excuses:
They've been fighting for literally Ages; they're tired of it, and tired of Middle-earth itself; they're leaving. Why bother with a world you're going to leave in just a few years, when you've already made such a thankless effort to help it.

Anyway, for another set of argument:
If you missed that part in the App., here's one from "The Passing of the Grey Company":

...said Gimli. "The Lady of the Wood! She read many hearts and desires. Now why did we not wish for some of our own kinsfolk, Legolas?"

Legolas stood before the gate and turned his bright eyes away north and east, and his fair face was troubled. "I do not think that any would come," he answered. "They have no need to ride to war; war already marches on their own lands."

So there you go: all Lórien, Mirkwood and Erebor were busy with their own battles of the War of the Ring. And Rivendell sent out some of its best warriors: Elladan and Elrohir.

And grab a copy of Silmarillion, then explain to me why you think the elves are wusses who never fight.

[HerenIstarion]

Why were they not prepared to sacrifice themselves for the destruction of Sauron and the ring

But quite the opposite, the elves were prepared to do so. The destruction of the One meant consequently stop of operation for the elven Three. Which was pretty much the same as self-sacrifice, or opening the way to their own fading. Just because of said destruction they were obliged to leave ME and go West, after all.

As for the battles, besides what Legolas and Gimli consider, and having in mind that elven fight proof is already provided by Maédhros let us reestablish good name of the dwarves too. The tale of years mentioned, besides narrative provided, has calendar entries too:

March 17 Battle of Dale. King Brand and King Dáin Ironfoot fall. Many Dwarves and Men take refuge in Erebor and are besieged. Shagrat brings Frodo's cloak, mail-shirt, and sword to Barad-dûr.

Narrative follows close by:

At the same time as the great armies besieged Minas Tirith a host of the allies of Sauron that had long threatened the borders of King Brand crossed the River Carnen, and Brand was driven back to Dale. There he had the aid of the Dwarves of Erebor; and there was a great battle at the Mountain's feet It lasted three days, but in the end both King Brand and King Dáin Ironfoot were slain, and the Easterlings had the victory. But they could not take the Gate. and many, both Dwarves and Men, took refuge in Erebor, and there withstood a siege.

To draw an assumption, the book itself deals only with events happening around fellows of the ring (if I may be forgiven for coining such an expression). But many things happen elsewhere too, and those are described outside the main narrative. But it is always good to read them too, before coming to conclusions.

[Essex]

Let's cut our Newly Deceased Etharius some slack. Not everyone who has read LOTR may have read the silmarillion or even the appendecies of LOTR.

I agree with most of what has been explained above, but I do agree with the point Etharius made that the Elves may have been 'stuck up'. I believe they were HIGHLY stuck up, and had a 'holier than thou' attitude.

This may be down to the fact that they were the Firstborn and immortal, and saw themselves as the god's 'chosen ones'.

As well as their sin of pride, this doesn't give them an excuse to be a pretty nasty bunch of beings for a lenghty period of their history (ie kinslaying, etc).

You may be able to ascertain from this post that I am not a great lover of Elves.

[HerenIstarion]

Let's cut our Newly Deceased Etharius some slack. Not everyone who has read LOTR may have read the silmarillion or even the appendecies of LOTR.

With pleasure Any amount of slack one may wish for would be cut at Etharius' disposal, and, yes, there is nothing bad in being not versed in something, for all of us are good or bad in some fields of our interest, but for three things:

1) The attitude exhibited in the initial post of the thread hints at judging from the movies version, and dissaproving of the books as differing to the worse
2) We are in the Books subforum and not in the Movies
3) Initial post poses not questions but statements, statements in accusative mode at that

Whilst neither point is outside the scope of person's right to express his/her opinions freely, it is likewise our right not to agree, and it is not surprising that number of us felt it our duty to defend books from groundless accusations. I say 'felt', for until you asked for respite, I did not consciously realise what it was that made me post in the thread of the kind I usually try to avoid.

Besides, counter arguments given were backed up with quotes. Far from having intentions of scaring new members away, intentions behing quote-providing are usually to the best - to interest the person against whom argument is held to read the section of the books which is quoted and change his/her views on the basis of textual evidence, and not merely refute with holy anger.

pretty nasty bunch of stuck up pranky beings re:

A load of men proved themselves a lot nastier, more sinfully proud, spilled more blood of their own kin and so forth. As for the chosen ones, I lack time to start profound discussion right away, but the thing is, elves knew for sure that followers were the chosen ones (if such an expression is at all lawfull, for both are Children of Eru, and each has its function, so there is no talk about being chosen as in a sense like 'preferred', for Eru loves all His Children likewise) on two bases:

A) Men were to inherit ME, and elves were to fade
B) Men were granted death - i.e. freedom to go (allegedly) to Illuvatar directly.

Besides, estrangement between two races, which may have been the cause of such an attitude (as to accuse the opposite of being haughty), is ascribed to Sauron's doings.

cheers