![]() |
![]() |
Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
|
![]() |
#1 |
Auspicious Wraith
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 4,859
![]() ![]() |
![]()
I've been wondering what the physical differences between Elves and Men were.
I mean, beside ears of course. Thanks.
__________________
Los Ingobernables de Harlond |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]()
Actually, there is disagreement over whether elves had pointed ears or not.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Wight
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 131
![]() |
![]()
As Eru said in the Silmarillion, the elves were created 'looking like' the Valar, beautiful, smart, magical powers, immortal etc. But the men were mortal, driven to discover things, and more influenceble than the elves, who were more 'at themselves'.
The elves knew much more, but the staid more at home, never showing themsleves. The Fellowship of the ring were almost the first non-elves who entered Lothlorien. The men were more expanding people, with great empires like Gondor and Rohan. There is thus a great difference between elves and men.
__________________
With the birds I'll share this lonely view. ~Red Hot Chili Peppers, Scar Tisue~ *Laurëfin* |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Desultory Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat.....
Posts: 7,779
![]() |
![]()
Elves were a very tall people, graceful, skilled, light on their feet, with exceedingly keen senses attuned to the world about them.
Some of these attributes were passed on to the race of Men when Elves and Men had families together. So, saying - Elves and Men must have shared the same physiology for them to be able to reproduce with each other. Veritas -- Hi! Nice picture!!
__________________
Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Rivendell
Posts: 19
![]() |
![]()
Elves were tall, graceful, beautiful, swift, wise, powerful, regal, attune to nature, lovers of the earth, and were imortal.
They were also more resistant to evil, temptation, and being swayed than men were. In comparison Elrond was right to some degree - Men are weak. At least some of them... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
__________________
Few can see where their road leads them till they come to its end. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Haunting Spirit
|
![]()
It never actually said that elves had pointed easrs. . . that's just a stereotype of our society. Elves were tall, fair, and like the valar. Men (as I always imagined) were more "scruffy", not as fair, and obviously not as tall.
__________________
". . . All we must decide is what to do with the time that is given us." "I pass the test, I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel." |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 | |
Eldar Spirit of Truth
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE
Posts: 794
![]() |
![]() Quote:
__________________
*~*Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.*~* |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
Wight
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Armenelos
Posts: 136
![]() |
![]()
If u read the sil, it says that the physical traits of the two races were much alike in the first age. In the third age it was the time of the waning of the elves and Men were now become more powerful, thought not in all instances wiser.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
Wight
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Armenelos
Posts: 136
![]() |
![]()
oh, and the "not as tall" comment earlier.
maybe so if you compare the Men of the First age with the elves of the Noldor. The Noldor were come out of Valinor. Numenoreans were very tall compared to other men and taller than most elves, as well as stronger. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 | |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 45
![]() |
Quote:
They were called “halflings”; but this refers to the normal height of men of Númenórean descent and of the Eldar (especially those of Ñoldorin descent), which appears to have been about seven of our feet.’ 'The Quendi were in origin a tall people. The Eldar (...) they were in general the stronger and taller members of the Elvish folk at that time. In Eldarin tradition it was said that even their women were seldom less than six feet in height; their full-grown elfmen no less than six and a half feet, while some of the great kings and leaders were taller.' Numenoreans weren't stronger than the Eldar once they physically resemble the Eldar. Most men from the third-age couldn't see the difference between them: "The Númenóreans ... are in constant communication with their ancient friends and allies, either in the bliss of Eressea, or in the kingdom of Gilgalad on the shores of Middle-earth. They became thus in appearance and even in powers of mind, hardly distinguishable from the Elves..." |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
Wight
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: far away,in the southern arda
Posts: 153
![]() |
The elves are fairer than men,and much more agile,wiser,and also elves,particularly the noldor,can crafted many things that impossible to made by men.men,are more susceptible to corruption,but they still a powerful race.they are possibly stronger than elves,but their crafting skill are probably lower than the elves,seeing that they cant made a palantie,like fëanor does.men also less wise than the elves,and more arrogant.
__________________
Fly,you fools!-gandalf,the bridge of khazad dûm |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 265
![]() |
I find this passage very fascinating from The Silmarillion.
Quote:
__________________
A short saying oft contains much wisdom. ~Sophocles |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 45
![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 | |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 45
![]() |
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 |
Wight
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: far away,in the southern arda
Posts: 153
![]() |
Turin turambar definitely surpassed ordinary elves in term of strengh.he take-out glaurung alone(although he died too).
__________________
Fly,you fools!-gandalf,the bridge of khazad dûm |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#16 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: May 2002
Location: stronghold of the North
Posts: 390
![]() |
![]()
As the Elves avakened under the light of stars, that light ever after shone from their eyes.
The Elves were immortal and ageless, though they could be killed or die of great grief. Otherwise they never knew sickness or grow weak with age.
__________________
Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века, Чтобы ты - простил?.. А трава разлуки высока... |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#17 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The Pacific Northwest - Tir Nan Og
Posts: 306
![]() |
![]()
Elian: what letter was that statement found in and when in comparison to his books? He also did not specify what type of leaf according to your quote. For all we know they rounded. Ears or no ears, it does not really matter.
As far as physical differences, I feel there would be little between the Men and the Elves. I recalled reading that tolkien did not want the stereo type of the fantasy characters, expecially with the elves. He never reached the point of not using "elf" , "drawf", or "human". So the elves are fair. In comparison to what? Yes were read of stars and stuff, but translate this into laymens terms? Whatever physical differences that may exsist, it cannot take away from the mindset and emotions that is shared between the Men and the Elves. That is the thing that we should more be concerned about, you would have a better converstation, one that is a bit more mature.
__________________
Mes sana in corpec sano- (lt.) A sound mind in a sound body |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#18 |
Eldar Spirit of Truth
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE
Posts: 794
![]() |
![]()
There's actually a thread on it, so here's the link. Pointy Ears
__________________
*~*Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.*~* |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#19 |
Fair and Cold
|
Oh it's easy, the former is desirable, the latter is tolerable.... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
I mean...I'm kidding. Right?
__________________
~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~ |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#20 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: NH
Posts: 63
![]() |
![]()
In one of Tolkiens letters he states that Elves had leaf shaped ears. Most leaves come to a point, or points.
Actually I believe you are thinking of the linguistic connection between "lhaw" and "las." in the etymologies. The only thing which, i believe, is stated in the letters is that hobbits have slightly pointed "elvish" ears. whether this is a reference to the quendi or rather traditional elves is a matter of debate.
__________________
Sailhand of the Mariners' Guild |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#21 | ||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: A place worse then Mordor........School!
Posts: 1,075
![]() |
![]() Quote:
I think that there is a "magical" presence around the elves that few men have. And when I say magic I don't mean abra kadabra. It's like what's said in the LotR in Lothlorien. It's a deep sort of magic that can't really be seen. Quote:
Actually I see alot of simmalarites between elves and men. I am right now making my way through the Silmalarion. And the elves act alot like I would expect men to. Anyway, that's my two cents. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
__________________
"There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone."-Remus Lupin "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."-Pippin (now how can you argue with that logic?) |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#22 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 20
![]() |
![]()
Men are taller and broader then elves, elves are slimmer and have a more sophisticated sort of humour and song.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#23 | |
Wight
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Armenelos
Posts: 136
![]() |
![]() Quote:
more sophisticated sort of humour? not really... song? prolly, especially the sindar elves.. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#24 |
Banshee of Camelot
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 5,830
![]() |
![]()
Mae govannen !
I`m in the middle of reading the Silmarillion, just like Rose Cotton. And there I get quite a different impression of the elves than from LotR. Just like Rose is saying, the elves act much more like ancient human heroes. They have vices and weaknesses and some have even a nasty character. I really started asking myself what the difference between elves and men are, apart from the immortality.?? In LotR the elves seem much more different from men, they are more spirital and have a mysterious, magical aura. And none of them is wicked. They appear to me like a link between the valar and men. How can this be explained? Perhaps because "their wisdom waxed from age to age" and by the time of the third age they must have accumulated a lot of wisdom...? and the wicked ones have long ago met their doom and are no more in Middle-earth. Does anyone have a better explanation ? Suilad, Guinevere
__________________
Yes! "wish-fulfilment dreams" we spin to cheat our timid hearts, and ugly Fact defeat! |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#25 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 430
![]() |
Quote:
![]() I have to say, when I was young, blind and romantically in love with all of Elvendom, I skimmed over quite a few traits that really do place Elves as not-so-nice, at times. So, I have to agree with this post. For example, Turgon tossed Eol's father off the cliffs as punishment for Eol killing Aredhel. Eol--really not very nice as well--thought of his son, Maeglin and Aredhel as his possessions. Eol was a hot-headed, territorial Elf (like them all, really), banging on about Telerin lands overrun by imperial Noldor. Feanor, another maniacal ego-driven madman (sorry madelf ![]() Elvish folk made rather nasty weapons that were extremely deadly, whose blades felled their own kind (e.g. Beleg). They were deeply xenophobic peoples who had exclusionary principles that governed territorial rights. Though, their mystery, beauty, grace, wisdom and essence were also a deeply moving legacy. Though, I still love elves, I've grown to see how Melkor made Orcs of them. I also wonder about that natural hatred between those two races and what that really means about both Elves and Orcs, but for mirror-image reasons. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#26 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 713
![]() |
![]()
When Tolkien wrote LOTR, I think he wanted the elves to be exotic and creatures without faults. Compared to the Sil, there are few elves in LOTR. In the Sil they are the dominant race, and I think he made them more human because it would make the story more interesting, and because they were no longer exotic beings, but rather everyday stuff.
__________________
Two beer or not two beer, that is the question; by Shakesbeer |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#27 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: May 2002
Location: stronghold of the North
Posts: 390
![]() |
![]()
I can think of two explanations to that. It seems to me that the Lord of the Rings was written from the human (or shall i say mortals') point of view, so the elves are portrayed as an ancient, mystirious, somewhat superior race. The Silmarillion is more like elven cronicles and probably describes things as elves saw them.
Another thought, The Silmarillion describes the 'childhood and youth' of elven race (if it's possible to say so). The childhood -the time when elves were invited to Valinor, taught and cared for there. Youth - rebelling against all authorities, desire to do what they thought right, gaining experience and making mistakes (often deadly). And just because they were immortal they accumulated life experience and wisdom, it was not lost with every next generation, as it happens with men when only the wise learn on someone else's mistakes. And by the time of the Lord of the Rings the wicked had probably had enough time to get what they deserved or to repent and change their ways. So I believe immortality (not just physiological, but ability to accumulate knowledge) is what made elves so different from men. And I suppose the same immortality eventually makes elves 'weary of the world' and so at some distance from it. Maybe the two races were not meant to be so differnt from the beginning, it just happened with time.
__________________
Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века, Чтобы ты - простил?.. А трава разлуки высока... |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#28 |
Banshee of Camelot
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 5,830
![]() |
![]()
Thank you for your answers !
Akhtene, I like your theory of the childhood and youth of the elvenrace. Sounds very convincing! In chapter 11 of the Sil.,Tolkien also writes: "In those days they were more like to the bodies of Men, since they had not so long been inhabited by the fire of their spirit, which consumes them from within in the courses of time " But, in those old days, how could you tell from the outside if a person was an elf or a Man , if they had no pointy ears ? Because the elves were "fair of face beyond the measure of Men" ? Well, that`s starting the discussion all over, and I guess there is no real answer to it. Suilad, Guinevere
__________________
Yes! "wish-fulfilment dreams" we spin to cheat our timid hearts, and ugly Fact defeat! |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|
![]() |