Gandalf or Gadalv? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Manwe · 01-30-2002, 04:46 AM

I was just looking in the Apendix and realised that f in the end of words hav a value of v. Is Gandalf then Gandalv? I'm rather confused because noone has ever said Gandlav.

Elenhin · 01-30-2002, 09:05 AM

The appendix talks about Elvish words only. 'Gandalf' is not Elvish, but Old Norse (representing an old northern speech in LotR). So 'Gandalf' is not said as 'Gandalv'.

Elrian · 01-30-2002, 10:43 AM

That appendix does not state that it is only for Elvish words.

Maeglin · 01-30-2002, 12:12 PM

Is it like this?

Elven: Mithrandir
Human(Old Norse): Gandalf

Mayla Took · 01-30-2002, 10:23 PM

Hummm, I don't remember seeing a "Gandalv" in the appendics. Where exactly is it? Then maybe I can give my oppinion.... [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

Elenhin · 01-31-2002, 11:33 AM

Elrian: Then did Tolkien mean 'Dwarrowdelv' when he wrote 'Dwarrowdelf'? Or 'dwarv' when he wrote 'dwarf'?

There is no pronunciation guide for Rohirric or the related old northern languages in the appendices of LotR, because those languages were Old English and related old Scandinavian languages. The appendices deal with Tolkien's invented languages only (you'll note that all the example words are Elvish, Khuzdul or Adunaic).

Take a look at the entry for Gandalf in the Encyclopedia of Arda, if you don't want to take my word only for this.

Hama · 01-31-2002, 11:53 AM

From what I remember of the appendix, the chief reason Tolkien used Dwarves, Dwarven and Elves and Elven etc was to avoid "Dwarfs" and "Elfin", which he felt were words with inappropriate connotations for the noble races he envisaged.

Also, the Elves name for Gandalf was "Mithrandir", not Gandalf, which was what the humans called him

Jjudvven · 01-31-2002, 01:02 PM

Aye, It's funny, when the editors first edited TLoTR or the Hobbit, they replaced 'Elven' with 'Elfin', yadayada.... He got SO mad. [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Birdland · 02-02-2002, 05:13 PM

Here's a quote from Bill Welden, Tolkien language scholar for 30 years, and advisor for the Lord of the Ringsfilms:

"there is a natural tendency for English speakers to darken the second "a" in "Gandalf" and swallow the "l" (so that is sounds more like "Gandoff")."

If you say it like Mr Welden suggests, with a short "a" in both syllables, and emphasize the "L", you get a sound almost like "Gan-DALV". Pretty close, anyway.

01-30-2002, 04:46 AM	#1
Manwe Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ilmarin, Taniquetil Posts: 98	Gandalf or Gadalv? I was just looking in the Apendix and realised that f in the end of words hav a value of v. Is Gandalf then Gandalv? I'm rather confused because noone has ever said Gandlav. __________________ by the way my name is Manwë, not Manwe

01-30-2002, 10:43 AM	#3
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	That appendix does not state that it is only for Elvish words. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

01-30-2002, 12:12 PM	#4
Maeglin Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nan Elmoth Posts: 136	Is it like this? Elven: Mithrandir Human(Old Norse): Gandalf __________________ The fool speaks of what he knows. The wise knows what he speaks of.

01-30-2002, 10:23 PM	#5
Mayla Took Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Shire Posts: 152	Hummm, I don't remember seeing a "Gandalv" in the appendics. Where exactly is it? Then maybe I can give my oppinion.... [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] __________________ Good Things Come in Small Packages. (And don't you forget it!) Pippin:"What is that?!?" Merry:"This, my friend, is a pint!" Pippin:"It comes in PINTS?!?....I'm getting one!" "Don't let your heads get too big for your hats! But if you don't finish growing up soon, you are going to find hats and clothes expensive." Bilbo to Merry and Pippin "Fool of a Took! This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party. Throw yourself in next time, and then you will be no further nuisance. Now be quiet!" Gandalf to Pippin in Moria E-mail me at mailto:ThirdAgeHobbit@hotmail.comThirdAgeHobbit@hotmail.com</A> Oh, and please rate me. THANKS!

01-31-2002, 11:53 AM	#7
Hama Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Olde London Towne Posts: 23	From what I remember of the appendix, the chief reason Tolkien used Dwarves, Dwarven and Elves and Elven etc was to avoid "Dwarfs" and "Elfin", which he felt were words with inappropriate connotations for the noble races he envisaged. Also, the Elves name for Gandalf was "Mithrandir", not Gandalf, which was what the humans called him __________________ Fly you fools

01-30-2002, 09:05 AM	#2
Elenhin Wight Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Vantaa, Finland Posts: 205	The appendix talks about Elvish words only. 'Gandalf' is not Elvish, but Old Norse (representing an old northern speech in LotR). So 'Gandalf' is not said as 'Gandalv'.

01-31-2002, 11:33 AM	#6
Elenhin Wight Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Vantaa, Finland Posts: 205	Elrian: Then did Tolkien mean 'Dwarrowdelv' when he wrote 'Dwarrowdelf'? Or 'dwarv' when he wrote 'dwarf'? There is no pronunciation guide for Rohirric or the related old northern languages in the appendices of LotR, because those languages were Old English and related old Scandinavian languages. The appendices deal with Tolkien's invented languages only (you'll note that all the example words are Elvish, Khuzdul or Adunaic). Take a look at the entry for Gandalf in the Encyclopedia of Arda, if you don't want to take my word only for this.

01-31-2002, 01:02 PM	#8
Jjudvven Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Land to the West Posts: 154	Aye, It's funny, when the editors first edited TLoTR or the Hobbit, they replaced 'Elven' with 'Elfin', yadayada.... He got SO mad. [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] __________________ "I don't know all of you as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you, half as well as you deserve."

02-02-2002, 05:13 PM	#9
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,751	Here's a quote from Bill Welden, Tolkien language scholar for 30 years, and advisor for the Lord of the Ringsfilms: "there is a natural tendency for English speakers to darken the second "a" in "Gandalf" and swallow the "l" (so that is sounds more like "Gandoff")." If you say it like Mr Welden suggests, with a short "a" in both syllables, and emphasize the "L", you get a sound almost like "Gan-DALV". Pretty close, anyway.