what's with Feanor's kids?

[the phantom]

I was just thinking about a couple of funny things about Feanor's family.
1)why were all of his kids boys?
2)why did only one son have a kid?
Isn't it weird that all of these princes of the Noldor didn't seem concerned with preserving their family. If Maehdros, Maglor, and some of the others would've had some kids, you'd think that some of them would've hung out in Rivendell, greatly increasing its power and wisdom. I don't know if there is an answer to these two questions, but I'd love to read the theories of my fellow members.

[burrahobbit]

1)why were all of his kids boys?

Amazing coincidence.

2)why did only one son have a kid?

There are several reasons. Mostly they were a bunch of uncool people. If I knew Feanor's kids I would not hang out with them at all. Aside from (or perhaps causing) that was their oath. They had to get the silmarils, no matter what. No time for chicks, man.

wisdom

Wisdom and Feanor have absolutely nothing in common.

[Legolas]

They were all boys, and most were too concerned with the Oath to wed and have children.

I started typing this before burra's response, but now that I see his, I'll just refer you to it.

[ July 27, 2002: Message edited by: Legalos ]

If I were immortal for all intents and purposes, I don't think I'd be overworried about reproducing and creating a family all too quickly.
After all, you have forever to find the perfect elfmaiden, although it seems that alliances were the rage, back in the day. Eh, just an opinion, but if I were one of the sons, I'd bide my time.

[burrahobbit]

I'd bide my time.

And then they died.

Heh, they attracted some bad karma, Burra. You're right though, immortality is probably not a good reason to slack off keeping your race on the forefront-look at humans...breed like rabbits, they do...only there aren't litters, I'm rambling.

[the phantom]

Yeah, Feanor and wisdom are not exactly thought of together, but he had great wisdom in some areas. Feanor made the jewels, Celebrimbor, his last descendant, helped make those rings, I think it takes a type of wisdom, not just skill, to make magic things like that. Plus I'm sure some of his grandkids would've taken more after Nerdanel, who was more wise.

[Manwe Sulimo]

Interesting Tidbit:

If Finwë was in fact the father of all the Noldor, then with the death of Celembrimbor there were no more pure-blooded Noldor left. All of the remaining Noldor, being descended from Finwë and Indis, were part Vanyar. So, the stupidity of the Seven Sons led to the extinction of the pure-blood Noldor. (Unless Celebrimbor had children that I'm not aware, but even if he did they were probably killed in the sack of Ost-in-Edhil.)

[Elrian]

Finwe was not the father of all the Noldor, that's impossible. He was the High King of the Noldor in Valinor and he was the one who led his people there. Also to answer someones querstion above about the descendants of the sons of Feanor living in Rivendell, that could possibly be out of the question since they were responsible for the sack of Doriath and for kidnapping Elrond and his brother, and raiding their house to try to get the Silmaril from their mother. Elwing

[Aldagrim Proudfoot]

Does anyone else feel sorry for Maehdros? I mean, he seemed like a good guy except for stealling the Silmaril. He tried to get his father to not burn the ships, then he got kidnapped and lost his hand. He only made the oath because his father did. And his father was crazy.

[Maédhros]

And then they died.

Well, most of them died, except for Maglor. If he died later, i don´t know.

And it is told of Maglor that he could not endure the pain with which the Silmaril tormented him; and he cast it at last into the Sea, and thereafter he wandered ever upon the shores, singing in pain and regret beside the waves. For Maglor was mighty among the singers of old, named only after Daeron of Doriath; but he came never back among the people of the Elves.

but he had great wisdom in some areas. Feanor made the jewels, Celebrimbor, his last descendant, helped make those rings

You´re right that he had great skill, but i wouldn´t called it wisdom. He was a genius, plain and simple.

Does anyone else feel sorry for Maehdros?

I think that Maedhros is a fascinating character. To me, he was trapped by the circumstances. The oath, made him vulnerable to evil, yet he seemed always in a strugle to do what´s right. The friendship of Fingon, the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. To me he was one of the best.
I guess you can say that by my name.

[ July 27, 2002: Message edited by: Maédhros ]

[the phantom]

Maehdros is one of my favorites also. He really seemed to be a descent guy, even passing the leadership of the Noldor from himself to Fingolfin.
And why wouldn't some of Feanor's descendants be in Rivendell? I recall in the Silmarilien that there was a decent bond that grew between Maglor and the brothers (Elrond and Elros) after he kidnapped them. Maglor also seemed like a decent guy. Any theories on what happened to him?

[Morgoth Bauglir]

didnt he and meadhros both die after the last great battle trying to steal the remaining two silmarils from the host of valinor? i think they jumped into the river or sea or something.

[the phantom]

Only Maehdros jumped into the sea. Maglor threw his Silmaril into the Earth and started singing. I don't recall hearing of his demise.

[Eol]

Maglor threw the silmaril into the sea and Maedhros in great anguish threw himself into a firey chasm with the silmaril.

As what happened to Maglor, he was left singing on the shores in anguish never to return to the elves. Page 253-54 Simarillion,Of the voyage of Earendil.

I would have to agree that the sons of Feanor were obsessed with the Silmaril. Their fear lay with the consequences of breaking such an oath.

Also there were few who loved the sons of Feanor, many saw them as trouble and to be avoided. In the Story of Beren and Luthien, Curufin and Celegrom raised havovic in Finrod Felagund's Kingdom and kidnapped Luthien upon her first time fleeing Doriath.

[ July 27, 2002: Message edited by: Eol ]

[Sarin Elfarmour]

the reason feanor had few grandchildren was that while in Valinor ther sons of feanor were busy in thier craft and in ME they were too obsessed with the silmarills to wake up and smell the coffee.

Coffee, did someone say coffee? I wonder if there was a caffeine-like stimulant in ME? Now there's a question.

~tests something~

[Eol]

dude someone's needs a fix? Now can you connect caffine with Feanor and his sons?

[Elrian]

They had coffee Bilbo served it to one of the Dwarves. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[the phantom]

Thanks for the clarification Eol! I'm writing this on vacation and I don't have any of my books with me.
(By the way, I think that Feanor, besides making the Simlmarils, also invented coffee)

[Eol]

Glad to be of service, if you need anything else, check out the silmarillion cliffnotes at my homepage.

Feanor did create coffee. How else do you have a "firy" spirit first thing in the morning? [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[StarJewel]

The fact that all Feanor's kids were guys is amazing. Can you imagine the sibling quarrels, the smashed furniture, and the busted bones? The fact that they all survived their youth with each other is astounding. And as for their kids, for all we know, all could have been married and raised families. Too bad Tolkein never says [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] . I think they did marry, cuz if someone was willing to marry Curufin, why not Maedhros or Maglor? Personally, I would have dated and married Maedhros in a heartbeat. Ok, now i'm rambling, i cant see straight, and it is so time for me to go to bed. lates

[Maikadilwen]

cuz if someone was willing to marry Curufin, why not Maedhros or Maglor?

Maglor was married! Both he and Curufin left their wives behind because of their oath.
Caranthir was married as well, but exactly when that happened (in Aman or in M-E?), I'm not sure but it didn't seem to mean very much to him either.
With the "love" these three show, how much do you think the other four cared about getting married or having children?
The oath was far too important.

[ June 25, 2003: Message edited by: Maikadilwen ]

[Diamond18]

I thought I'd pop in to mention that I know a family who has seven boys. They missed out on their chance to name them all after the sons of Fëanor, but that at least proves that it isn't impossible to have many children all of one sex. (Well, there is one daughter, the oldest child. But after her, it was all boys). I have no idea as to the normal girl/boy ratio in large families, however, so I can't say how bizarre a coincedence it may or may not be. In Tolkien's case, I find the behavior of the boys to be far more bizarre than their gender itself. Shiny stones are all well and pretty, but they don't keep you warm at night. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[the phantom]

Yes, that's what blankets are for.

[Finwe]

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if Maedhros and Maglor got married. They were the slightly calmer and more level-headed sons. All of the others were just CRAZY, so we can't really expect them to do anything rational.

It's very rare that a genius is also given the same store of common sense. Look at Albert Einstein. The man was one of the greatest thinkers of our age, and yet, at the age of 40, he still couldn't tie his shoes properly or comb his hair. Fëanor's lack of common sense doesn't surprise me. In fact, I think Nerdanel wasn't a genius like her husband, she just had a great store of common sense. In later days, when everyone was writing these tales down, they finally realized that true wisdom is common sense, and that is why she is called wise.

[the phantom]

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if Maedhros and Maglor got married.

You wouldn't? I think it'd be one of the most shocking things ever in Tolkien's literature.

Or did you not mean to each other? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Finwe]

SORRY SORRY!!! I didn't mean for it to come out that way! NOT TO EACH OTHER!!!! I meant that I wouldn't be surprised if either Maedhros or Maglor got married (individually).

[the phantom]

NOT TO EACH OTHER!!!!

Sorry, I couldn't resist. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

And I agree, I'm surprised niether Maedhros nor Maglor found a wife (while they were in Valinor, I understand it'd be difficult once the war started).

I'm especially surprised that Maglor never found a woman. I'm sure lots of elf women would've loved a guy who could serenade them.

[Diamond18]

Yes, that's what blankets are for.

Blankets? My dear Phantom, I pity the blanket that gets between a Son of Fëanor and his Silmaril! Any mere swath of cloth that dims or mutes the Laurelinian glow of those shiny stones, would find itself a shredded up mass of loose threads. I can only imagine the fervor with which a SoF would rip the fibers of such a blanket apart, using knives and nails and teeth (anything sharp would do, even toothpicks).

Moral: Don't get between an Elf and his Jewel, even if you are an inanimate object.

Hey, you started it. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

[Maikadilwen]

I'm especially surprised that Maglor never found a woman

Ahem!
Allow me to direct you back to my earlier post on this very thread.
Maglor was married. So was Caranthir.
HoME 12; 'Of Dwarves and Men'

EDIT: Gave the wrong source. Sorry about that. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ June 25, 2003: Message edited by: Maikadilwen ]

[the phantom]

Maglor was married

Oh good. I don't have to be surprised any more.

I've only skimmed the Shibowhatsa of Feanor once, and only read carefully on bits and pieces of it. I have to wait until my summer classes are done before reading it.

I guess Maglor didn't have kids then?

And Diamond, I just thought of something, if you took jewels and got them really warm and then stuck them inside a blanket, then jewels could help you keep warm.

And actually, Maehdros's Silmaril helped him keep his hands warm for a while, and then it caused him to go someplace even warmer.

So I'd say a jewel can do anything that a blanket can do (and jewels are prettier).

Or were you not hinting at blankets when you said jewels couldn't keep you warm at night?

[Roccotari Eldandil]

I actually started to like Maedhros. Such a shame that he had to be obsessed with the Silmaril. Maybe one-handed jewel-crazed Elf guys are my secret weakness.
And to answer question #1, "why were all his kids boys?", it has to do something with the chemical balance in the womb at conception. Blame it on Fëanor's wife--Nerdanel, I think some other people said? Wow, I'm a nerd. Wait a sec, I JUST FOUND A [semi-]REAL APPLICATION FOR BIOLOGY!!!! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] (sorry to all who are biologists. My eleventh-grade, astronomy/geology-obsessed brain doesn't find a whole lot of application for biology.)