The Tale of Tinuviel - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Durelin · 12-03-2002, 03:34 PM

I recently read The Tale of Tinuviel and thought it was another excellent example of J.R.R. Tolkien's mastery in literature (ooo pretty sentence [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]). I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on it. Feel free to discuss anything you think about the story!

*Varda* · 12-03-2002, 03:47 PM

The Tale of Tinuviel was probably one my favourite bits in the Silmarillion at least, although I loved the part where Aragorn told it to the Hobbits.

I just think it's such a sweet story, and although the end is kind of happy, since Luthien is reunited with Beren, it's still a little sad (I get choked up anyway, maybe I'm the only one) because you know they're going to die and it's so SWEET.

Durelin · 12-03-2002, 03:53 PM

Yeah, when I finished reading it I was like "Man, that was a sad story!" I didn't think it was going to end that way, I thought it was going to have a "happily everafter" fairytale ending! I think part of what makes it such a great tale is the fact that it doesn't end with the "happily everafter" crap! That never happens in real life and shouldn't so often in tales. Also, it wasn't a sappy love story and had adventure and action in it, if it was just like "I love you Tinuviel" "Oh, and love you too Beren" kissy kissy "No, Beren can not marry you Tinuviel!" "No father" cry cry "I am now going to wander in the woods and die!" cry cry...okay, you get my drift. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

*Varda* · 12-03-2002, 03:58 PM

Yes, to my mind, bittersweet endings are always better. (Although of course, it often depends on the book - but the ones I read tend to be better with bittersweet endings - Anyone read the Dark Materials trilogy [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] )

In any case, it's that that gets me every time at the end of Lord of the Rings. I KNOW it's a good thing for Frodo that he's off to Valinor, but yet...it's so sad that he's leaving behind everything he knows.

It's this that shows through in the Tale of Tinuviel, the love that they have is so sweet and so happy, and Luthien is willing to die for Beren.... [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] There is no smiley that does a happy and sad face at the same time! [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img]

600 posts...

Durelin · 12-03-2002, 04:21 PM

Yeah, bittersweet... Did you think of Thingol as mean? I didn't really think he was "mean" he just thought he was protecting his daughter, elves can be kinda arrogant!

Beren87 · 12-03-2002, 04:54 PM

<---------look at my SN. ^_^

Arguably Tolkien's greatest work, on his tombstone it's written "Here lies Beren" and on his wife's it reads "Here lies Luthein". In my opinion the best love story ever told.

[ December 03, 2002: Message edited by: Beren87 ]

littlemanpoet · 12-04-2002, 11:02 AM

If you liked the Tale of Tinuviel in Silmarillion or Unfinished Tales, check out the Lays of Beleriand where it's rendered in poetry, at least two versions!

Ever notice how the Silmarils have the same kind of draw on Thingol (and others) as the Ring on Gollum and others?

Earendil evening star · 12-04-2002, 11:38 AM

I loved the story when Aragorn told the hobbits in the book and i've always wondered what kind of bittersweet music would do justice to those words.
I don't completely understand the story though and i really need to get my hands on the Silmarillion (hints strongly to *varda*)
Also if any of you have read His Dark Materials trilogy it is fantastic and one of it's big impacts is the bittersweet ending. I think that is why i remember it so well and i think that's why the story of Tinuviel stays in the memory of someone who has read the book, because you know that you can't change it.
luv
elise xxx

*Varda* · 12-04-2002, 11:38 AM

I thought that having Beren and Luthien written on their graves was so sweet! (yes...I use that word too much...)

I think Thingol was really just being an overprotective father. Luthien was his only daughter (only child, I think?) so of course he wouldn't be best pleased at giving her up. Even more angry that it would be to a mortal. At least if Luthien married an elf, she could eventually go to Valinor, but Beren ruled out that possibility.

So I understand why Thingol did what he did...although telling Beren to go on a virtually impossible quest that was almost a certainty of death was a tad evil.

But blame the Silmaril. I mean, most people wanted one.

12-03-2002, 03:34 PM	#1
Durelin Estelo dagnir, Melo ring Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,063	The Tale of Tinuviel I recently read The Tale of Tinuviel and thought it was another excellent example of J.R.R. Tolkien's mastery in literature (ooo pretty sentence [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]). I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on it. Feel free to discuss anything you think about the story!

12-03-2002, 03:47 PM	#2
Varda Maiden of Tears Join Date: May 2002 Location: Valinor. Posts: 571	The Tale of Tinuviel was probably one my favourite bits in the Silmarillion at least, although I loved the part where Aragorn told it to the Hobbits. I just think it's such a sweet story, and although the end is kind of happy, since Luthien is reunited with Beren, it's still a little sad (I get choked up anyway, maybe I'm the only one) because you know they're going to die and it's so SWEET. __________________ 'It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: someone has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them' ~Frodo "Life is hard. After all, it kills you." - Katharine Hepburn

12-03-2002, 03:58 PM	#4
Varda Maiden of Tears Join Date: May 2002 Location: Valinor. Posts: 571	Yes, to my mind, bittersweet endings are always better. (Although of course, it often depends on the book - but the ones I read tend to be better with bittersweet endings - Anyone read the Dark Materials trilogy [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] ) In any case, it's that that gets me every time at the end of Lord of the Rings. I KNOW it's a good thing for Frodo that he's off to Valinor, but yet...it's so sad that he's leaving behind everything he knows. It's this that shows through in the Tale of Tinuviel, the love that they have is so sweet and so happy, and Luthien is willing to die for Beren.... [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] There is no smiley that does a happy and sad face at the same time! [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] 600 posts... __________________ 'It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: someone has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them' ~Frodo "Life is hard. After all, it kills you." - Katharine Hepburn

12-04-2002, 11:38 AM	#8
Earendil evening star Animated Skeleton Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Scotland Posts: 26	I loved the story when Aragorn told the hobbits in the book and i've always wondered what kind of bittersweet music would do justice to those words. I don't completely understand the story though and i really need to get my hands on the Silmarillion (hints strongly to varda) Also if any of you have read His Dark Materials trilogy it is fantastic and one of it's big impacts is the bittersweet ending. I think that is why i remember it so well and i think that's why the story of Tinuviel stays in the memory of someone who has read the book, because you know that you can't change it. luv elise xxx __________________ "Earendil,the Evening Star,and most beloved of the elves,shone clear above" Chapter vII

12-04-2002, 11:38 AM	#9
Varda Maiden of Tears Join Date: May 2002 Location: Valinor. Posts: 571	I thought that having Beren and Luthien written on their graves was so sweet! (yes...I use that word too much...) I think Thingol was really just being an overprotective father. Luthien was his only daughter (only child, I think?) so of course he wouldn't be best pleased at giving her up. Even more angry that it would be to a mortal. At least if Luthien married an elf, she could eventually go to Valinor, but Beren ruled out that possibility. So I understand why Thingol did what he did...although telling Beren to go on a virtually impossible quest that was almost a certainty of death was a tad evil. But blame the Silmaril. I mean, most people wanted one. __________________ 'It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: someone has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them' ~Frodo "Life is hard. After all, it kills you." - Katharine Hepburn

12-03-2002, 03:53 PM	#3
Durelin Estelo dagnir, Melo ring Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,063	Yeah, when I finished reading it I was like "Man, that was a sad story!" I didn't think it was going to end that way, I thought it was going to have a "happily everafter" fairytale ending! I think part of what makes it such a great tale is the fact that it doesn't end with the "happily everafter" crap! That never happens in real life and shouldn't so often in tales. Also, it wasn't a sappy love story and had adventure and action in it, if it was just like "I love you Tinuviel" "Oh, and love you too Beren" kissy kissy "No, Beren can not marry you Tinuviel!" "No father" cry cry "I am now going to wander in the woods and die!" cry cry...okay, you get my drift. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

12-03-2002, 04:21 PM	#5
Durelin Estelo dagnir, Melo ring Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,063	Yeah, bittersweet... Did you think of Thingol as mean? I didn't really think he was "mean" he just thought he was protecting his daughter, elves can be kinda arrogant!

12-03-2002, 04:54 PM	#6
Beren87 Master of the Secret Fire Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Between fire and ice, death and life Posts: 2,241	<---------look at my SN. ^_^ Arguably Tolkien's greatest work, on his tombstone it's written "Here lies Beren" and on his wife's it reads "Here lies Luthein". In my opinion the best love story ever told. [ December 03, 2002: Message edited by: Beren87 ]

12-04-2002, 11:02 AM	#7
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	If you liked the Tale of Tinuviel in Silmarillion or Unfinished Tales, check out the Lays of Beleriand where it's rendered in poetry, at least two versions! Ever notice how the Silmarils have the same kind of draw on Thingol (and others) as the Ring on Gollum and others?