Tolkien/Football Connections - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Estelyn Telcontar · 06-21-2006, 04:08 AM

The World Cup Football* Championships, currently taking place in Germany, bring to light some connections, however unexpected or remote, between the professor and the ballgame. No, though golf is mentioned in one Middle-earth story, there is no mention of the game that now encompasses the enthusiasm of the world. We do read that Tolkien himself played rugby, but I'm not even sure if football had already been invented back in his sporting days. He did write one work about that sport, a poem called "The Battle of the Eastern Field".

However, I did find one bit of news that connects the two interests: TOR.n reports that the Spanish player Torres is a Tolkien fan and has his name "Fernando" tattooed on his arm in Tengwar. Here is the article, here is a picture.

*Americans, get used to the fact that what you call 'soccer' is 'football' to the rest of the world. And since there's more to the rest of the world, however astonishing, than to the USA

there's more reason for you to change terminology, not us!

Lalwendë · 06-21-2006, 04:37 AM

Footie was most certainly kicking around (ahem, excuse me

) in Tolkien's day; many of our most venerable teams such as Preston North End, Bolton Wanderers and Sheffield United and Wednesday had been in existence for some time, and footie certainly was attracting enormous crowds in the North of England and in all working class areas. During the 1930's the sorts of crowds that would flock to matches put today's crowds to shame; of course there were no seats, and little security so people would crowd in to watch.

Also football stretches back to the medieval period in the UK, when matches would be played in the streets with very few rules and a lot of drunken rowdiness. Teams would often consist of one side of a town versus the other and some towns still revive these rowdy scenes; they still have this 'game' at Ashbourne in Derbyshire, and it resembles a huge riot.

Here's a link to the great tradition of Medieval Footie

It was the public schools who eventually came up with actual rules, which also resulted in the division between Rugby and Footie. Maybe this resulted in some of the class divisions between fans of Footie and Rugby - though Rugby League is still very much a working class sport, hugely popular in Northern towns like Wigan, St Helens, Bradford, Huddersfield etc. Rugby Union is more characteristic of public schools and towns like Bath. I presume Tolkien played Rugby Union rather than Rugby League? It's been known for fans of Rugby Union to dislike Footie.

Funnily enough, though many of his fans are probably not huge sports fans (though a lot are, before SpM, Esty and Phantom jump down my neck

), Tolkien was pretty good at sports, and he fell in with the 'hearty' set of his time who disliked aesthetes, so might we expect to see sport in his work?

**The Saucepan Man** · 06-21-2006, 05:20 AM

Tolkien/Football Connection?

Here's one:

On a more serious note, isn't football, or a football, mentioned somewhere in the early chapters of The Hobbit? And I am sure that Tolkien expresses his views on football somewhere in the Letters. Or is that cricket?

Sorry, don't have the books to hand, so can't be more precise just now.

Mithalwen · 06-21-2006, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

It was the public schools who eventually came up with actual rules, which also resulted in the division between Rugby and Footie. Rugby Union is more characteristic of public schools and towns like Bath. I presume Tolkien played Rugby Union rather than Rugby League? It's been known for fans of Rugby Union to dislike Footie.

Rugby Union is also quite popular in the not noticibly bourgeois nation of Wales..... It is also popular in its native Midlands (the clue is in the name!) where many fine union teams are based (and where my father (of working class background, played at county level). Tolkien was educated not so many miles from Rugby and the photo in the biography shows him as a member of a XV.

Lalwendë · 06-21-2006, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Rugby Union is also quite popular in the not noticibly bourgeois nation of Wales..... It is also popular in its native Midlands (the clue is in the name!) where many fine union teams are based (and where my father (of working class background, played at county level). Tolkien was educated not so many miles from Rugby and the photo in the biography shows him as a member of a XV.

I just knew you would know more about Rugby Union! Cheers!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpM

On a more serious note, isn't football, or a football, mentioned somewhere in the early chapters of The Hobbit? And I am sure that Tolkien expresses his views on football somewhere in the Letters. Or is that cricket?

Quote:

"This won't do at all!"said Thorin. "If we don't get blown off or drowned, or struck by lightning, we shall be picked up by some giant and kicked sky-high for a football."

Quote:

There was life in Bombur still. There was a noise like the kicking of a flabby football, and the enraged spider fell off the branch, only catching itself with its own thread just in time.

And I'm not the only one to notice the Crouch/Gollum resemblance too.

Mithalwen · 06-21-2006, 06:37 AM

Well I did play for my University and it is basically my father's religion.... he will watch association football but fact he prefers rugby may be partly to do with the fact "his team" is Coventry City ...that isn't good is it?

Sounds like the giant is taking a punt.... Rugby definitely....

Estelyn Telcontar · 06-21-2006, 06:43 AM

Thanks for finding those quotes, Lal!! Of course, as they're from The Hobbit, people don't have to consider them quite canonical, I suppose...

Saucy, I checked the index to Letters and found references to both rugby and cricket, but none to football, alas.

Rumil · 06-21-2006, 12:37 PM

As well as the essential quotes from The Hobbit, it appears (rather less canonically) that Middle Earth had a thriving cup competition -

Middle Earth Football Tournament

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 06-21-2006, 12:53 PM

The local news last week had a bit proclaiming that football was, in fact, invented up here in Aberdeen. Just wanted to throw that out there.

Estelyn, I cannot thank you enough for bringing this to my attention. Fernando Torres is probably my favourite footballer due to my 'discovering' him on Championship Manager (PC game) a full year before he was ever mentioned on British television.

Maybe if I write my fanmail in Quenya he'll finally reply.

Estelyn Telcontar · 06-21-2006, 02:27 PM

I chuckled over one player's name, as it sounds very close to a character of Tolkien's: Bobadilla, from Paraguay.

I'm glad this information is helpful to you, Eomer! Good luck on getting an answer to your fan mail...

Mattius · 06-24-2006, 06:01 PM

Love the Crouch-Gollum!

Lalwendë · 07-04-2006, 06:14 AM

Not really a Tolkien-Footie connection, but just to show how old the game is...

I was listening to the song Jack Rowland by Martin Carthy ealier; it's based on tales of Childe Rowland, which are very old stories. I noticed that the tale begins with a game of what seems to be football, and then goes off into adventures in Faerie. There aren't many stories that link Faerie and Football, I'm sure.

06-21-2006, 04:08 AM	#1
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Tolkien/Football Connections The World Cup Football* Championships, currently taking place in Germany, bring to light some connections, however unexpected or remote, between the professor and the ballgame. No, though golf is mentioned in one Middle-earth story, there is no mention of the game that now encompasses the enthusiasm of the world. We do read that Tolkien himself played rugby, but I'm not even sure if football had already been invented back in his sporting days. He did write one work about that sport, a poem called "The Battle of the Eastern Field". However, I did find one bit of news that connects the two interests: TOR.n reports that the Spanish player Torres is a Tolkien fan and has his name "Fernando" tattooed on his arm in Tengwar. Here is the article, here is a picture. *Americans, get used to the fact that what you call 'soccer' is 'football' to the rest of the world. And since there's more to the rest of the world, however astonishing, than to the USA there's more reason for you to change terminology, not us! __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

06-21-2006, 04:37 AM	#2
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	Footie was most certainly kicking around (ahem, excuse me ) in Tolkien's day; many of our most venerable teams such as Preston North End, Bolton Wanderers and Sheffield United and Wednesday had been in existence for some time, and footie certainly was attracting enormous crowds in the North of England and in all working class areas. During the 1930's the sorts of crowds that would flock to matches put today's crowds to shame; of course there were no seats, and little security so people would crowd in to watch. Also football stretches back to the medieval period in the UK, when matches would be played in the streets with very few rules and a lot of drunken rowdiness. Teams would often consist of one side of a town versus the other and some towns still revive these rowdy scenes; they still have this 'game' at Ashbourne in Derbyshire, and it resembles a huge riot. Here's a link to the great tradition of Medieval Footie It was the public schools who eventually came up with actual rules, which also resulted in the division between Rugby and Footie. Maybe this resulted in some of the class divisions between fans of Footie and Rugby - though Rugby League is still very much a working class sport, hugely popular in Northern towns like Wigan, St Helens, Bradford, Huddersfield etc. Rugby Union is more characteristic of public schools and towns like Bath. I presume Tolkien played Rugby Union rather than Rugby League? It's been known for fans of Rugby Union to dislike Footie. Funnily enough, though many of his fans are probably not huge sports fans (though a lot are, before SpM, Esty and Phantom jump down my neck ), Tolkien was pretty good at sports, and he fell in with the 'hearty' set of his time who disliked aesthetes, so might we expect to see sport in his work? __________________ Gordon's alive!

06-21-2006, 05:20 AM	#3
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Tolkien/Football Connection? Here's one: On a more serious note, isn't football, or a football, mentioned somewhere in the early chapters of The Hobbit? And I am sure that Tolkien expresses his views on football somewhere in the Letters. Or is that cricket? Sorry, don't have the books to hand, so can't be more precise just now. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

06-21-2006, 06:37 AM	#6
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	Well I did play for my University and it is basically my father's religion.... he will watch association football but fact he prefers rugby may be partly to do with the fact "his team" is Coventry City ...that isn't good is it? Sounds like the giant is taking a punt.... Rugby definitely.... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

06-21-2006, 06:43 AM	#7
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Thanks for finding those quotes, Lal!! Of course, as they're from The Hobbit, people don't have to consider them quite canonical, I suppose... Saucy, I checked the index to Letters and found references to both rugby and cricket, but none to football, alas. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' Last edited by Estelyn Telcontar; 06-21-2006 at 06:47 AM.

06-21-2006, 12:37 PM	#8
Rumil Sage & Onions Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Britain Posts: 894	footie footie footie As well as the essential quotes from The Hobbit, it appears (rather less canonically) that Middle Earth had a thriving cup competition - Middle Earth Football Tournament __________________ Rumil of Coedhirion

06-21-2006, 12:53 PM	#9
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	The local news last week had a bit proclaiming that football was, in fact, invented up here in Aberdeen. Just wanted to throw that out there. Estelyn, I cannot thank you enough for bringing this to my attention. Fernando Torres is probably my favourite footballer due to my 'discovering' him on Championship Manager (PC game) a full year before he was ever mentioned on British television. Maybe if I write my fanmail in Quenya he'll finally reply. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

06-21-2006, 02:27 PM	#10
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	I chuckled over one player's name, as it sounds very close to a character of Tolkien's: Bobadilla, from Paraguay. I'm glad this information is helpful to you, Eomer! Good luck on getting an answer to your fan mail... __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

06-24-2006, 06:01 PM	#11
Mattius Soul of Fire Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of Steel Posts: 666	Love the Crouch-Gollum! __________________ A problem shared is a problem halved, so is your problem really yours or just half of someone else's?

07-04-2006, 06:14 AM	#12
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	Not really a Tolkien-Footie connection, but just to show how old the game is... I was listening to the song Jack Rowland by Martin Carthy ealier; it's based on tales of Childe Rowland, which are very old stories. I noticed that the tale begins with a game of what seems to be football, and then goes off into adventures in Faerie. There aren't many stories that link Faerie and Football, I'm sure. __________________ Gordon's alive!