need some help - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

feonor · 09-27-2005, 03:32 PM

For now, more than in the days of Utumno ere his pride was humbled, his hatred devoured him, and in the domination of his servants and the inspiring of them with lust of evil he spent his spirit. Nonetheless his majesty as one of the Valar long remained, though turned to terror, and before his face all save the mightiest sank into a dark pit of fear.

these paragraf is from silmarillion in Chapter 9 "Of the Flight of the Noldor" when morgoth escaped from valinor.

who can tell me what does it mean exactly?: (especially underlined sentence)
"Nonetheless his majesty as one of the Valar long remained, though turned to terror, and before his face all save the mightiest sank into a dark pit of fear"

it is important for me to understand the story.
thank you

Encaitare · 09-27-2005, 05:20 PM

I think it means exactly what it says: only the mightiest (such as Manwe) could face Morgoth without falling into despair.

feonor · 09-27-2005, 06:26 PM

ok. thank you but in my book(turkish translate) it is hard to understand the sentence. also i found it unclear in english. i can't explain the translation completely but it is like that "all they sank into a dark pit of fear except the mightiest". the mightiest is in the singular form. it's unclear to who is the mightiest he talked about. we know that the mightiest is the melkor (and then manwe). is he really talking about manwe? is it clear? why tolkien didn't refer manwe directly if it is so clear to manwe is the second mightiest?

Encaitare · 09-27-2005, 07:18 PM

Quote:

the mightiest is in the singular form. it's unclear to who is the mightiest he talked about. we know that the mightiest is the melkor (and then manwe). is he really talking about manwe? is it clear? why tolkien didn't refer manwe directly if it is so clear to manwe is the second mightiest?

It might be a mistranslation with the singular -- I could be wrong, but I don't think that Tolkien intended to only refer to Manwe or any other single entity.

Estelyn Telcontar · 09-28-2005, 01:35 AM

I agree with Encaitare. In English, "mightiest" could mean either singular or plural. From the context of the passage, it seems to me that more than one person is meant.

09-27-2005, 03:32 PM	#1
feonor Pile O'Bones Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Eriador Posts: 11	need some help For now, more than in the days of Utumno ere his pride was humbled, his hatred devoured him, and in the domination of his servants and the inspiring of them with lust of evil he spent his spirit. Nonetheless his majesty as one of the Valar long remained, though turned to terror, and before his face all save the mightiest sank into a dark pit of fear. these paragraf is from silmarillion in Chapter 9 "Of the Flight of the Noldor" when morgoth escaped from valinor. who can tell me what does it mean exactly?: (especially underlined sentence) "Nonetheless his majesty as one of the Valar long remained, though turned to terror, and before his face all save the mightiest sank into a dark pit of fear" it is important for me to understand the story. thank you __________________ There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Iluvatar; and he made first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of his thought, and they were with him before aught else was made.

09-27-2005, 06:26 PM	#3
feonor Pile O'Bones Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Eriador Posts: 11	ok. thank you but in my book(turkish translate) it is hard to understand the sentence. also i found it unclear in english. i can't explain the translation completely but it is like that "all they sank into a dark pit of fear except the mightiest". the mightiest is in the singular form. it's unclear to who is the mightiest he talked about. we know that the mightiest is the melkor (and then manwe). is he really talking about manwe? is it clear? why tolkien didn't refer manwe directly if it is so clear to manwe is the second mightiest? __________________ There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Iluvatar; and he made first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of his thought, and they were with him before aught else was made.

09-28-2005, 01:35 AM	#5
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	I agree with Encaitare. In English, "mightiest" could mean either singular or plural. From the context of the passage, it seems to me that more than one person is meant. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

09-27-2005, 05:20 PM	#2
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	I think it means exactly what it says: only the mightiest (such as Manwe) could face Morgoth without falling into despair.