úmëa ér uilë - Evil still lives?

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Sorry about the title, I wanted to show off my Elvish (Quenta).
Any way, it says "Evil still lives?"

So what I want to know is this; After Sauron was defeated (Perhaps those of you who have read "Sauron defeated" may know) was there still savants of Morgoth / Sauron, that would try and make trouble, corrupt men (As the Elves left) or Dwarves, make war ect? They say that after the battle of five armies most of the Orcs were driven from the Misty Mountains, after the battle at the black gates, Orcs and Uruks were scattered. Now, There should be some Balrogs, Trolls ect left also. As the Balrogs are Miar, (Agh! I cannot spell that word!) Could one of them take another form? With time would some servant of Morgoth increase in power? Melkor took many of the Miar to be slaves, would any of them become alike to Sauron?

Knowing my luck I've over looked something really obvious. But still, can anyone help?

Well, Sauron didn't have a lieutenant that served him as he served Morgoth. Arguably there were the Nazgul, but after the One Ring was destroyed, they were gone along with Sauron.

Durin's Bane had been hiding since the end of the first age, nigh 8,000 years, IIRC.
Most of the Balrogs were destroyed in the war of wrath, and are more intent on hiding then ruling Middle Earth. If they had any ambitions like Sauron did, they would have been more present in the second and third ages. As far as I can tell, the Balrogs were used more like Elite troops then battlefield commanders.

[Sharkû]

There is no evidence whatsoever that more Balrogs survived the Fall of Angband. Tolkien states in a letter something to the effect that 'here we find one that one has survivied the Fall and hidden', implying he was the only one to do so. Implied or not, we know of no others.

Personally, I have also argued in the past that there were no more Morgothian dragons after the death of Smaug.
Of course Shelob might still be around...

What we know of the evil in the 4th Age is that it mainly comes from the inside, from Man's dissatisfaction with good, resulting in youths playing orcs, secret cults etc.

[Knight of Gondor]

The appendices of RotK speak of the remaining evil creatures that had to be routed out and killed by King Aragorn and King Eomer. The ruin of Mordor was left alone, lest any of the evil that dwelt there be disturbed, or something like that. That's one of the things that always bothered me a little about Middle-Earth...you never do defeat the evil entirely. Morgoth came back from being chained, then Sauron stayed after Morgoth's exile. Then Sauron was destroyed, but wasn't fully gone. Then he was finally destroyed...well, we don't know much beyond that.

I agree, though, the primary evil after Sauron's fall was in the weakness of Man.

[Kransha]

Well, generally, Melkor/Sauron's evils have been extinguished. Orcs linger in the Misty Mountains, some orcs may remain around Nurn, there are always a few bothersome trolls, Haradrim, Easterling, and Dunlending rogues. Various villains to be dealt with, but no really great evil. Eomer and Elessar rode out in the 4th Age to quell those evils, though many of these exploits are yet undocumented.

Actually, there are two loopholes. Firstly, the forgotten 'Citadel' of Gundabad, the orcish stronghold in the Misty Mountains, which survived the War of the Ring and must be thwarted. Secondly, the slim (very slim) possibility that there are lesser dragons or the 'worms' of the east that are sparsely mentioned. This is, of course, nary more than heresay and conjecture.

For an illustration of possibilities, look to The New Shadow, the barely satiating first chapter of a possible sequel, written by Prof. T. himself. For good reason, JRRT gave up on this, seeing it to be pointless to explore man's weakness, since the Third Age Myth for Britain was already complete. Man's weakness would be nothing but a weak allegory for the Medieval world, not fantasy in any respect and not really Tolkein quality.

In that brief glimpse, we are only introduced to preliminary characters, one being Borleas, son of our RotK friend Bergil (or was it Beregond?). It is unsure whether he was meant to be the protagonist, and the story only falters, despite the usual Tolkein flourish of the writing. It is shown that all evils will arise when man's world succumbs to generic corruption, like the abovementioned cults, etc.

[symestreem]

There will always be evil, because of mannish nature, and dwarvish nature to a lesser extent. Even if all of the bad creatures were hunted out and destroyed, man would still be treacherous.
Why did Gundabad play no part in the War of the Ring? Was its population decimated to that extent by the Battle of the Five Armies?
Kransha, it's probably Bergil's son; Beregond's son would be Bergil's brother.

[Voralphion]

Gundabad was mostly destroyed in the war of dwarves and orcs when they wanted revenge on the orcs for he killing of Thrain by Azog.

It says somewhere that Sauron was the last personified evil in the world, and that any evil after that would be the evil in men.

[Saraphim]

But Morgoth himself the Valar thrust through the Door of Night beyond the walls of the world, into the Timeless Void ; and a gaurd is set forever on those walls, and Earendil keeps watch upon the ramparts of the sky. Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and it will bear dark fuit unto even the latest days.

This is from the end of the Silmarilion.

It means, at least to me, that although Melkor, and later Sauron, was banished from beyond all the circles of the world, what they strove for (the dominion of Hate and Terror over the children of Illuvitar, ect) was, at least in part, successfull.

When has any of us not felt afraid, or hateful? According to Tolkien, the thought that was planted within the first genrations of humanity still holds true today. So, yes, úmëa ér uilë.

[Hookbill the Goomba]

There will always be evil, because of mannish nature, and dwarvish nature to a lesser extent. Even if all of the bad creatures were hunted out and destroyed, man would still be treacherous.

I would agree to an extent, but the way I see it is that Melkor is the utter source of Evil in Middle Earth. Without Melkor I don’t think Evil would have entered. Without the treat of Morgoth All of the children of Iluvatar would not be so fearful of each other to begin with. The Peoples of Middle Earth would be more trusting and so I would say that it is Melkor who planted the Evil into the hearts of Men, Elves, or Dwarves.
The fear of treachery and the fear of foes will have made them untrusting of each other. And so as it says in Silm;

The seeds of Melkor's hate were deeply imbedded in the world.

(Or something likes that. Correct me if I misquoted)

Back to the subject, I think that there would be some Worms left after Smoug. Many have argued that the Fell beasts that the Názgul rode upon were dragons, but personally I think this may be dew to the poison of the film... but that’s not for here... The Dragons were an intelligent race, look at Glaurung, he was both a captain and a grate addition to Melkor's fours. So if any were left that weren’t sitting on a pile of gold somewhere, it is logical that if any servants of Sauron / Melkor would try and get them to fight for them. Wouldn't they?

[burrahobbit]

I think that there would be some Worms left after Smoug.

Smaug was the last of the big ones.

Many have argued that the Fell beasts that the Názgul rode upon were dragons

What else is evil and flies?

[symestreem]

The steeds of the Nazgul had no feathers or scales, but naked hide. Their description differs somewhat from that of a dragon. Also, would Legolas have been able to shoot a dragon? A young one perhaps, which is what the steeds would have had to been because of their size. But if the steeds are dragons, then there are no more, because these creatures are the 'last untimely brood'. Also, if they were dragons then they were winged but fireless. Were there any like that? Did the cold-drakes have wings?
Personally, I think that they are more likely to be one of Morgoth's creatures that he released. RotK says that the beast was perhaps 'a creature of an older world... whose kind, lingering in forgotten mountains cold beneath the Moon, outstayed their day...' Who else was releasing monsters in the First Age?
If they are Morgoth's creatures, are they evil any more than the horses are? Don't you have to have awareness before you can be evil?

[Saraphim]

If the winged steeds of the Nazgul were dragons, cold-drakes, ect, Tolkien would have named them as such. Instead, he used simply adjective-names to describe them, showin that they were unnamed, or had a long-forgotten name.

[Voralphion]

Eowyn killed the fell beast ridden by the Witch-King by cutting off its head. If it were a dragon this would not have been possible as dragons had strong scales that served as armour over their whole body, except their bellies. If it was a dragon, her sword would've just bounced off. I think Tolkien said in one of his letters that the fell beasts were a pterosaur like creature.

[Hookbill the Goomba]

I think we are going off topic.

What I think the question is this; in the time after Lotr were there any Spirits that would be prepared to take on Sauron's Mantle? Look at the Barrow downs (Don’t say "I already am" and start thinking your some kind of comic genius) There were evil spirits there, how do we know that Sauron as a Necromancer rose some of the Evil things bread by Melkor? And The Witch King Of angmar, he was a necromancer too want he?

[Saraphim]

Well, all the Nazgul were destroyed when Sauron fell, since they too were tied to the Ring, but you make a point that I haven't thought about, and I wonder why, because it has to do with my entire social life. The Barrow Wights!

I suppose I always assumed they faded with Sauron, but they were created from the uncontented spirits of Arnorian warriors/kings, weren't they? So perhaps there was more than just evil contained in the hearts of men.

But it's a moot point, since the Wights were created from the evil in the hearts of men anyway.