Concerning the Easterlings - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

01-02-2004, 11:23 PM

I have a question about the easterlings in the movie, in the books or at least in a dictoinary of middle earth, it says The easterlings that fought in the battle of pelennor fields were beared and bore great axes. but seemed to be atypical.....how come the movie got this wrong or what up with this im a lil confused on who the easterlings really where and y did the movie depict them this way Thnx in notice Turin.

Lord of Angmar · 01-02-2004, 11:31 PM

Welcome to the Downs, Turin. Great handle.As you'll find from the "Movies" forum, people think that Peter Jackson's movies got a lot of things wrong. A thread like this should probably go there. As for your question about who the Easterlings were, they were a race of Men from the unknown East of Middle-earth, who often warred with the Free People (that is, the "good guys") of Middle-earth, dating back to the treachery of Ulfang in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. In the Third Age they were mercernaries for the war machine of Sauron.

01-02-2004, 11:38 PM

thnx, the movie did get alot fo stuff wrong, and it started to confuse me on who they wereTurin is one of my favorite characters sad he had to end the way he did. thnx again

Legolas · 01-03-2004, 12:06 AM

Moving to the Movies forum...

Olorin_TLA · 01-03-2004, 09:31 AM

At last, someone else noticed! *Party!* The Easterlings in the films look nothign like the ones in the Book. I was curious about this, so I listened to the Artists' Commentaries on the Two Towers DVD about Haradrim and Easterlings. Turns out PJ gave the description of the Haradrim to the artists...for the Haradrim AND the Easterlings. One of the artists even mentions how they tried to make the Haradrim look different from the Easterlings, cosndiering they were told they both used red and scarlet (a Haradric trait). In fact, the Easterlings at the Black Gate even carry a Haradric BANNER!!! (Black serpent on red).I don't see how nobody noticed when making the films. By the way, Lord of Angmar's statement is a little wrong. The Eastelrings weren't just one group of men (neither were the Haradrim (Southrons) ) ; it was just a term used to describe men from countires to the East of where "the 'good' guys" were. So in the First Age the Easterlings there may well have come from what later became Arnor and Gondor (but obviously, not the same people there later!) or further east.The ones in the Third Age again are just people from further East, whom Sauron has usually influence over since they had nowhere and noone to run to from him. Some races which he incited to attack Gondor and the Wainriders and the Balcoth. The ones in the War of the Ring "a new type of Men whom we have seen before" as a Gondorian soldier says when they first appear during the attacks on Osgiliath and Minas Tirith, are another race of men. Like all races, they probably fought each other someitmes too in the East.They weren't mercenaries either: Sauron stirred up their old hate of Gondor, which he hgave to them since he pretended he was a God and so they feared him, to make them attack Gondor. (For that matter, the Corsairs of Umbar weren't mercenaries either, despite what the film says.)[ 10:39 AM January 03, 2004: Message edited by: Olorin_TLA ]

Finwe · 01-03-2004, 01:30 PM

The Easterlings had attacked Gondor before. The Wainriders were a confederation of Easterlings that descended upon Gondor and its allies, about 200 years after the time of the Great Plague, and remained a threat to Gondor for nearly a hundred years. The Wainriders, who took their name from the wagons and chariots in which they rode to war, quickly overran Rhovanion and soon came to battle with Gondor itself. Narmacil II was lost in battle, and for a time all of Gondor's possessions east of Anduin were lost. Narmacil's son Calimehtar won temporary relief for his kingdom when he defeated the Wainriders on the plain of Dagorlad.After that defeat, the Wainriders planned revenge. After allying themselves with the Haradrim and Variags from Khand, they engineered a simultaneous assault on Gondor from the north and the south, which nearly destroyed Gondor completely. King Ondoher and his sons Artamir and Faramir were lost in the northern battles, but his general Eärnil defeated the southern invaders. The victorious Wainrider army in the north, celebrating their victory over Ondoher, suddenly found themselves set upon by Eärnil, in an encounter remarkably similar to the Crossing of the Delaware by General George Washington. As the Wainriders were sitting around getting drunk, watching dancing girls, etc. (you get the picture) Earnil's men snuck up on the camp, presumably got rid of all the sentries, and attacked while setting the camp on fire. This encounter was later known as The Battle of the Camp (I wonder why... ). The Wainriders were put to rout and those that survived the disastrous battle fled East.Later, it was realized that the Wainrider invasion, like many of Gondor's troubles, had been engineered by messengers/emissaries of Sauron. While Gondor lost control of all the lands east of the Anduin, the borders of Mordor opened, and the Nazgul were finally able to sneak back in. Since the King and both his sons were slain, a Council convened in Gondor to decide who would take the throne. King Arvedui of Arnor put forth his claim, saying that he had the right to the throne because he was descended from Isildur and because he married Firiel, the daughter of King Ondoher. Gondor's Council refused his claim, and gave the crown to Earnil. To try and make up for the "loss," Earnil promised Arvedui that if Arnor was ever in danger, Gondor's army would come with aid. Of course, Arnor did fall during Arvedui's (and Earnil's) lifetime, so that says something about the latter's timing.Earnil did manage to send an army north, under the leadership of his son, Earnur, and they managed to oust the King of Angmar and his troops from Fornost, where they had been celebrating their victory. The Witch-king's forces were caught between the cavalry of Gondor, led by Earnur, and a force of Elves from Rivendell, led by Glorfindel. The Witch-king challenged Earnur, but the latter's horse shied away, and bore Earnur away from the field (leading to much embarrassment, I'm sure). That was when Glorfindel spoke that famous prophecy that the Witch-king would not be slain by the hands of any man. We know the rest of that story.Earnur came back to Gondor, feeling very bitter, and later, after he was King, the Witch-king took advantage of that bitterness, and re-challenged him. Earnur rode to Minas Morgul, and was lost (Hmm... it is never a good idea to ride to the domain of a Witch-king, I wonder why). Conveniently, Earnur wasn't married, and didn't have any kids, so the line of Kings ended in Gondor. After Earnur was lost, his steward, Mardil, ruled in his stead, and began the line of Ruling Stewards (we also know the rest of that story). In short, the invasion of the Wainriders indirectly resulted in the failure of the line of the Kings in Gondor.

Gil-Galad · 01-03-2004, 06:45 PM

Finwe... you need a job or something,.. seesh you got to much spare time

01-02-2004, 11:23 PM	#1
Turin Bane of Glaurung Guest Posts: n/a	Concerning the Easterlings I have a question about the easterlings in the movie, in the books or at least in a dictoinary of middle earth, it says The easterlings that fought in the battle of pelennor fields were beared and bore great axes. but seemed to be atypical.....how come the movie got this wrong or what up with this im a lil confused on who the easterlings really where and y did the movie depict them this way<BR> <BR> Thnx in notice Turin.

01-02-2004, 11:31 PM	#2
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	Welcome to the Downs, Turin. Great handle.<P>As you'll find from the "Movies" forum, people think that Peter Jackson's movies got a lot of things wrong. A thread like this should probably go there. As for your question about who the Easterlings were, they were a race of Men from the unknown East of Middle-earth, who often warred with the Free People (that is, the "good guys") of Middle-earth, dating back to the treachery of Ulfang in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. In the Third Age they were mercernaries for the war machine of Sauron. __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

01-02-2004, 11:38 PM	#3
Turin Bane of Glaurung Guest Posts: n/a	thnx, the movie did get alot fo stuff wrong, and it started to confuse me on who they were<P>Turin is one of my favorite characters sad he had to end the way he did.<BR> <BR>thnx again

01-03-2004, 12:06 AM	#4
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	Moving to the Movies forum... __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

01-03-2004, 09:31 AM	#5
Olorin_TLA Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor. Posts: 420	At last, someone else noticed! Party! <P>The Easterlings in the films look nothign like the ones in the Book. I was curious about this, so I listened to the Artists' Commentaries on the Two Towers DVD about Haradrim and Easterlings. Turns out PJ gave the description of the Haradrim to the artists...for the Haradrim AND the Easterlings. One of the artists even mentions how they tried to make the Haradrim look different from the Easterlings, cosndiering they were told they both used red and scarlet (a Haradric trait). In fact, the Easterlings at the Black Gate even carry a Haradric BANNER!!! (Black serpent on red).<P>I don't see how nobody noticed when making the films. <P>By the way, Lord of Angmar's statement is a little wrong. The Eastelrings weren't just one group of men (neither were the Haradrim (Southrons) ) ; it was just a term used to describe men from countires to the East of where "the 'good' guys" were. So in the First Age the Easterlings there may well have come from what later became Arnor and Gondor (but obviously, not the same people there later!) or further east.<P>The ones in the Third Age again are just people from further East, whom Sauron has usually influence over since they had nowhere and noone to run to from him.<BR>Some races which he incited to attack Gondor and the Wainriders and the Balcoth. The ones in the War of the Ring "a new type of Men whom we have seen before" as a Gondorian soldier says when they first appear during the attacks on Osgiliath and Minas Tirith, are another race of men. Like all races, they probably fought each other someitmes too in the East.<P>They weren't mercenaries either: Sauron stirred up their old hate of Gondor, which he hgave to them since he pretended he was a God and so they feared him, to make them attack Gondor. (For that matter, the Corsairs of Umbar weren't mercenaries either, despite what the film says.)<p>[ 10:39 AM January 03, 2004: Message edited by: Olorin_TLA ] __________________ "For I am Olórin! And Olórin means me!" ELENDIL! - Join "Forth Tolkiengas!"

01-03-2004, 01:30 PM	#6
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	The Easterlings had attacked Gondor before. <P>The Wainriders were a confederation of Easterlings that descended upon Gondor and its allies, about 200 years after the time of the Great Plague, and remained a threat to Gondor for nearly a hundred years. The Wainriders, who took their name from the wagons and chariots in which they rode to war, quickly overran Rhovanion and soon came to battle with Gondor itself. <P>Narmacil II was lost in battle, and for a time all of Gondor's possessions east of Anduin were lost. Narmacil's son Calimehtar won temporary relief for his kingdom when he defeated the Wainriders on the plain of Dagorlad.<P>After that defeat, the Wainriders planned revenge. After allying themselves with the Haradrim and Variags from Khand, they engineered a simultaneous assault on Gondor from the north and the south, which nearly destroyed Gondor completely. King Ondoher and his sons Artamir and Faramir were lost in the northern battles, but his general Eärnil defeated the southern invaders. The victorious Wainrider army in the north, celebrating their victory over Ondoher, suddenly found themselves set upon by Eärnil, in an encounter remarkably similar to the Crossing of the Delaware by General George Washington. As the Wainriders were sitting around getting drunk, watching dancing girls, etc. (you get the picture) Earnil's men snuck up on the camp, presumably got rid of all the sentries, and attacked while setting the camp on fire. This encounter was later known as The Battle of the Camp (I wonder why... ). The Wainriders were put to rout and those that survived the disastrous battle fled East.<P>Later, it was realized that the Wainrider invasion, like many of Gondor's troubles, had been engineered by messengers/emissaries of Sauron. While Gondor lost control of all the lands east of the Anduin, the borders of Mordor opened, and the Nazgul were finally able to sneak back in. <P>Since the King and both his sons were slain, a Council convened in Gondor to decide who would take the throne. King Arvedui of Arnor put forth his claim, saying that he had the right to the throne because he was descended from Isildur and because he married Firiel, the daughter of King Ondoher. Gondor's Council refused his claim, and gave the crown to Earnil. To try and make up for the "loss," Earnil promised Arvedui that if Arnor was ever in danger, Gondor's army would come with aid. Of course, Arnor did fall during Arvedui's (and Earnil's) lifetime, so that says something about the latter's timing.<P>Earnil did manage to send an army north, under the leadership of his son, Earnur, and they managed to oust the King of Angmar and his troops from Fornost, where they had been celebrating their victory. The Witch-king's forces were caught between the cavalry of Gondor, led by Earnur, and a force of Elves from Rivendell, led by Glorfindel. The Witch-king challenged Earnur, but the latter's horse shied away, and bore Earnur away from the field (leading to much embarrassment, I'm sure). That was when Glorfindel spoke that famous prophecy that the Witch-king would not be slain by the hands of any man. We know the rest of that story.<P>Earnur came back to Gondor, feeling very bitter, and later, after he was King, the Witch-king took advantage of that bitterness, and re-challenged him. Earnur rode to Minas Morgul, and was lost (Hmm... it is never a good idea to ride to the domain of a Witch-king, I wonder why). Conveniently, Earnur wasn't married, and didn't have any kids, so the line of Kings ended in Gondor. After Earnur was lost, his steward, Mardil, ruled in his stead, and began the line of Ruling Stewards (we also know the rest of that story).<P><BR>In short, the invasion of the Wainriders indirectly resulted in the failure of the line of the Kings in Gondor. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

01-03-2004, 06:45 PM	#7
Gil-Galad Psyche of Prince Immortal Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis Posts: 4,733	Finwe... you need a job or something,.. seesh you got to much spare time __________________ Love doesn't blow up and get killed.