Short-Answer Questions - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Horse-Maiden of the Shire · 07-21-2003, 03:56 PM

I was thinking about this idea for a while, and it seemed good to me. This is a thread for questions that can be easily answered in one or two answers, like the "Do Hobbits have pointy ears?" thread. It keeps threads like those from opening one after the other and saves space on the Forum for other topics. I think it's a good idea. And I wasn't sure where to put it, so I stuck it in here.

Anyone is free to ask and anyone is free to answer.

[ July 22, 2003: Message edited by: Horse-Maiden of the Shire ]

steve · 07-21-2003, 11:32 PM

I have 2 Questions, both about the ring...

1- How does the ring work, did Sauron put all of his power in there to act as a intermediary so that if physicially died the ring would keep his lifeforce and his spirit on the physical plane?

2-How would sauron actuially get the ring back? would htye just throw it though a window of barad dur and he would come back to life? how would that work?

Novlamothien · 07-22-2003, 08:31 AM

Well, I can't answer your first question, but as to the second one, I do have a few things to say.
We all must remember that Sauron was not just a big eye like they say in the movies, that's just all that was visible. He was there, just not embodied.
Personally, I think that whoever captured the Ring(say a Nazgul) would have brought it to him,(I wonder if they could see him?)and he would have picked it up and put it on his hand. That's my opinion, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Namarie

Duncariel · 07-22-2003, 12:46 PM

Quote:

1- How does the ring work, did Sauron put all of his power in there to act as a intermediary so that if physicially died the ring would keep his lifeforce and his spirit on the physical plane?

Sauron did not put all of his power into the Ring, only about half of it. He did put enough of his power in the thing to keep him alive if he was defeated, but to destroy him if it were in turn destroyed.

Silmiel of Imladris · 07-22-2003, 02:35 PM

:does 100th post dance:

Anyway, I think that if Bilbo hadn't of found the ring one of the goblins would have picked it up. Since they like to brag about things word would have got out soon enough about the ring and the Nazgul would have came and nabbed it. So it is lucky that Biblo found the ring or everyone would be dead without even knowing what hit them.

Lyta_Underhill · 07-22-2003, 08:08 PM

Quote:

1- How does the ring work, did Sauron put all of his power in there to act as a intermediary so that if physicially died the ring would keep his lifeforce and his spirit on the physical plane?

I suppose that is true. Sauron lost his physical form at the drowning of Numenor in the Second Age; his spirit flew back to Middle Earth and he took up the Ring and clothed himself in power thereby. He had a terrible form when he wore the Ring, but he forsook it when the Ring was cut from his hand:

Quote:

The Sauron was for that time vanquished, and he forsook his body, and his spirit fled far away and hid in waste places; and he took no visible shape again for many long years.

from The Silmarillion "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" I don't know if that means he couldn't take physical form, but he didn't for a long time after the beginning of the Third Age.

I hope this info helps!
Cheers,
Lyta

P.S. Sorry if this wasn't a short answer! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

P.P.S. I should have done a 100th post dance last night, but I was too busy posting! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[ July 22, 2003: Message edited by: Lyta_Underhill ]

Guinevere · 07-24-2003, 12:44 PM

quote: "He was there, just not embodied."

Ah, but Sauron must eventually have had a physical body in the 3rd age (Though it must have taken him very long to "build it up" again)
because to Frodo's remark "It was Isildur who cut off the finger of the Enemy" Gollum answers

Quote:

Yes, he has only four on the Black Hand, but they are enough"

that implies that Gollum actually has seen Sauron.

[ July 24, 2003: Message edited by: Guinevere ]

steve · 07-24-2003, 07:07 PM

ACtuially that could be an assumption in gollum's part because if someone's finger is cut off Maiar or not, their finger will not grow back

Imladris · 07-26-2003, 09:41 AM

I know that the Elves did not help man during the War of the Ring, but couldn't there have been individuals that came to Gondor and helped fight against Sauron? Could there have been an elf, maybe, in the Houses of Healing or in the army that marched against Mordor? I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but I used the Search engine and it was about why the elves (as a race) didn't help.

[ July 26, 2003: Message edited by: Imladris ]

Ophelia · 07-27-2003, 04:15 AM

Well maybe there were individuals like Legolas who really came but I do not remember Tolkien saying anything about the Elves coming and fighting in the war . And Legolas once said that the Mirkwood Elves won't come because they will have problems like these them selves allready on the borders of Mirkwood .

Lyta_Underhill · 07-27-2003, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Yes, he has only four on the Black Hand, but they are enough"

Thanks, Guinevere, for that quote. I had forgotten completely about that one. I wonder if this four fingered physical manifestation is much like the limitations of Morgoth in Middle Earth after a time in the First Age. He was limited to a certain incarnate form, I believe after the darknening of Valinor. Perhaps Sauron was limited to taking a form that incorporated his physical hurts (the loss of a finger) in this way. I know one is Vala and one is Maia, but perhaps it is part of the same effect?

Cheers,
Lyta

Guinevere · 07-28-2003, 01:54 PM

I think it must be as you suggested, Lyta.

In several places it is stated that in the 2nd age when Sauron came to the elves in Eregion, he could still take a beautiful shape. But after the downfall of Numenor
"...though he was robbed now of that shape in which he had wrought so great an evil, so that he could never again appear fair to the eyes of Men,yet his spirit arose out of the deep (......)There he took up again his great Ring in Barad-dûr, and dwelt there, dark and silent, until he wrought himself a new guise, an image of malice and hatred made visible (...)

Shire Flower · 07-29-2003, 10:27 PM

I have some questions:

Did Gollum always have a split personality problem or was it just caused by years of isolation and the ring? I think maybe he always had it because of the "we" in this quote: "Give us that, Deagol, my love."

How old was each hobbit at the time that Frodo left for Rivendell?

Ophelia · 07-30-2003, 07:31 AM

Welcome to Barrow Downs Shire Flower !
Gollum was a normal hobbit before he got the Ring . I read that in the book . He became like that because of the Ring . It takes over mind . As you probobly read inthe book both Smeagol and Deagol became greedy and wanted the ring for them selves . They were seducedby it faster than any other of Ring bearers . So Smeagol started his habbit to say "we" right there and so on 'till he's doom .
I hope this helped you . [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Ophelia · 07-30-2003, 07:48 AM

And sorry , I just spoted your second question . As far as I know , when they set out of Rivendell they were in the exact same age as when they set out of the Shire - Frodo - 50 , Sam -38 , Merry - 36 and Pippin - 28 .

Orogaerion · 07-30-2003, 02:03 PM

Imladris: i saw you didnt get your question quite answered enough so here it is:

The reason none of the elves came to Gondor is because armiess attacked Lorien and Mirkwood at the same time as the battle of pelennor fields: it is more fully explained in the appendixes of Lotr

Horse-Maiden of the Shire · 07-30-2003, 02:24 PM

My thread is a success! And I haven't even posted on it since I began it! Hurrah!

I have a question: Were all of the Elves' senses unusually sharp? I know their sight and hearing was, but what about their sense of smell?

And welcome to the Downs, Orogaerion! Remember, dead is fun.

07-21-2003, 03:56 PM	#1
Horse-Maiden of the Shire Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Chillaxin' with Glorfindel-441 miles on the RtR Posts: 1,197	Short-Answer Questions I was thinking about this idea for a while, and it seemed good to me. This is a thread for questions that can be easily answered in one or two answers, like the "Do Hobbits have pointy ears?" thread. It keeps threads like those from opening one after the other and saves space on the Forum for other topics. I think it's a good idea. And I wasn't sure where to put it, so I stuck it in here. Anyone is free to ask and anyone is free to answer. [ July 22, 2003: Message edited by: Horse-Maiden of the Shire ] __________________ "There's a big...machine in the sky...some kind of electric snake...coming straight at us." "Shoot it," said my attorney. "Not yet...I want to study its habits."

07-21-2003, 11:32 PM	#2
steve Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edoras... er, Philadelphia Posts: 191	I have 2 Questions, both about the ring... 1- How does the ring work, did Sauron put all of his power in there to act as a intermediary so that if physicially died the ring would keep his lifeforce and his spirit on the physical plane? 2-How would sauron actuially get the ring back? would htye just throw it though a window of barad dur and he would come back to life? how would that work? __________________ MAGIC SHOP! Spells of Mass Destruction 20% off! Today Only!

07-22-2003, 08:31 AM	#3
Novlamothien Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: A white, wintry wonderland-in the South!! Posts: 75	Well, I can't answer your first question, but as to the second one, I do have a few things to say. We all must remember that Sauron was not just a big eye like they say in the movies, that's just all that was visible. He was there, just not embodied. Personally, I think that whoever captured the Ring(say a Nazgul) would have brought it to him,(I wonder if they could see him?)and he would have picked it up and put it on his hand. That's my opinion, someone correct me if I'm wrong. Namarie __________________ "He said if I had the cheek to make verses about Earendil in the house of Elrond that was my affair." ~Bilbo~

07-22-2003, 02:35 PM	#5
Silmiel of Imladris Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Looking into a crystal ball- still see nothing Posts: 395	:does 100th post dance: Anyway, I think that if Bilbo hadn't of found the ring one of the goblins would have picked it up. Since they like to brag about things word would have got out soon enough about the ring and the Nazgul would have came and nabbed it. So it is lucky that Biblo found the ring or everyone would be dead without even knowing what hit them. __________________ Legolas 20 ales later: I feel something, a slight tingling in my fingers. I think it's affecting me. Figwit on his name: Are you suggesting that I have the wit of a fig?

07-24-2003, 07:07 PM	#8
steve Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edoras... er, Philadelphia Posts: 191	ACtuially that could be an assumption in gollum's part because if someone's finger is cut off Maiar or not, their finger will not grow back __________________ MAGIC SHOP! Spells of Mass Destruction 20% off! Today Only!

07-26-2003, 09:41 AM	#9
Imladris Tears of the Phoenix Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Putting dimes in the jukebox baby. Posts: 1,453	I know that the Elves did not help man during the War of the Ring, but couldn't there have been individuals that came to Gondor and helped fight against Sauron? Could there have been an elf, maybe, in the Houses of Healing or in the army that marched against Mordor? I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but I used the Search engine and it was about why the elves (as a race) didn't help. [ July 26, 2003: Message edited by: Imladris ] __________________ I'm sorry it wasn't a unicorn. It would have been nice to have unicorns. I'm your huckleberry.

07-27-2003, 04:15 AM	#10
Ophelia Wight Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: somewhere between the sacred , silence and sweet . Posts: 169	Well maybe there were individuals like Legolas who really came but I do not remember Tolkien saying anything about the Elves coming and fighting in the war . And Legolas once said that the Mirkwood Elves won't come because they will have problems like these them selves allready on the borders of Mirkwood . __________________ I didn't lose my mind . It was mine to give away .

07-28-2003, 01:54 PM	#12
Guinevere Banshee of Camelot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Switzerland Posts: 5,830	I think it must be as you suggested, Lyta. In several places it is stated that in the 2nd age when Sauron came to the elves in Eregion, he could still take a beautiful shape. But after the downfall of Numenor "...though he was robbed now of that shape in which he had wrought so great an evil, so that he could never again appear fair to the eyes of Men,yet his spirit arose out of the deep (......)There he took up again his great Ring in Barad-dûr, and dwelt there, dark and silent, until he wrought himself a new guise, an image of malice and hatred made visible (...) __________________ Yes! "wish-fulfilment dreams" we spin to cheat our timid hearts, and ugly Fact defeat!

07-29-2003, 10:27 PM	#13
Shire Flower Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 25	I have some questions: Did Gollum always have a split personality problem or was it just caused by years of isolation and the ring? I think maybe he always had it because of the "we" in this quote: "Give us that, Deagol, my love." How old was each hobbit at the time that Frodo left for Rivendell?

07-30-2003, 07:31 AM	#14
Ophelia Wight Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: somewhere between the sacred , silence and sweet . Posts: 169	Welcome to Barrow Downs Shire Flower ! Gollum was a normal hobbit before he got the Ring . I read that in the book . He became like that because of the Ring . It takes over mind . As you probobly read inthe book both Smeagol and Deagol became greedy and wanted the ring for them selves . They were seducedby it faster than any other of Ring bearers . So Smeagol started his habbit to say "we" right there and so on 'till he's doom . I hope this helped you . [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ I didn't lose my mind . It was mine to give away .

07-30-2003, 07:48 AM	#15
Ophelia Wight Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: somewhere between the sacred , silence and sweet . Posts: 169	And sorry , I just spoted your second question . As far as I know , when they set out of Rivendell they were in the exact same age as when they set out of the Shire - Frodo - 50 , Sam -38 , Merry - 36 and Pippin - 28 . __________________ I didn't lose my mind . It was mine to give away .

07-30-2003, 02:03 PM	#16
Orogaerion Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Gondolin Posts: 17	Imladris: i saw you didnt get your question quite answered enough so here it is: The reason none of the elves came to Gondor is because armiess attacked Lorien and Mirkwood at the same time as the battle of pelennor fields: it is more fully explained in the appendixes of Lotr __________________ Lissenen ar’ maska’lalaith tenna’ lye omentuva Aa’ menle nauva calen ar’ ta hwesta e’ ale’quenle Aa’ menealle nauva calen ar’ malta

07-30-2003, 02:24 PM	#17
Horse-Maiden of the Shire Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Chillaxin' with Glorfindel-441 miles on the RtR Posts: 1,197	My thread is a success! And I haven't even posted on it since I began it! Hurrah! I have a question: Were all of the Elves' senses unusually sharp? I know their sight and hearing was, but what about their sense of smell? And welcome to the Downs, Orogaerion! Remember, dead is fun. __________________ "There's a big...machine in the sky...some kind of electric snake...coming straight at us." "Shoot it," said my attorney. "Not yet...I want to study its habits."