Did Huan have a fea? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Ahanarion · 03-13-2002, 08:31 PM

I've been wondering about this for a while. He could talk but he was a dog. It just doesn't make sense.

03-13-2002, 10:17 PM

Not sure about the fea, but there could be a flea. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Ahanarion · 03-13-2002, 11:14 PM

Perhaps I should rephrase that Did Huan have a spirit? Fea is Quenya for spirit.

Birdland · 03-13-2002, 11:42 PM

OK, going out on a limb, here...

All living things have a spirit.

"My-dog-has-fea!" (Only thing I learned to play on the guitar. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] )

Joy · 03-13-2002, 11:56 PM

I agree with Birdland, all things have a fea, a spirit. But not all spirits are eternal. The men, dwarves, hobbits and elves had feas. The only one mentioned as being eternal are the elves.

Ahanarion · 03-14-2002, 12:00 AM

A thread in the canon Silmarillion forum is what made me think of this it is talking about orcish fear and it says that if orcs were beasts they would have no fear.

Amarinth · 03-14-2002, 09:54 AM

yeah, i suppose huan has a fea. he seemed to have some perception of right or wrong, and if i remember correctly forsook the service of the sons of feanor when they tried to do bad bad things to luthien and beren. if he was just a beast, he would have simply obeyed his baser instincts or the wishes of his master.

dunno bout orcs though...

---------------------------------------------
every man's life is a path to the truth -- hesse

obloquy · 03-14-2002, 01:59 PM

No, not all things have a fea in Tolkien's world.

Regardless, Myths Transformed tells us that Huan was a Maia.

Quote:

Huan and Sorontar could be Maiar - emissaries of Manwë.(4)

(4)See p. 138.-At the bottom of the page bearing the brief text V (p. 389) my father jotted down the following, entirely unconnected with the matter of the text:
Living things in Aman. As the Valar would robe themselves like the Children, many of the Maiar robed themselves like other lesser living things, as trees, flowers, beasts. (Huan.)

Nufaciel · 03-14-2002, 03:35 PM

Yeah, you're right. Huan was a Maia.

03-14-2002, 07:25 PM

Wasn't huan originally orom's (the valar who first found the elves)? I thought I read in the silmarillion that orom gave him to one of feanor's sons (forgot the name again [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]). If huan is a maia, how can orom just gave him away? It's just too disrespectful imho [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img].

Neverthless, I think only iluvatar's children have feas. The only known ones are elves and humans. Maybe dwarves too but it's more or less adopted :P. So, if iluvatar made huan and gave him a purpose, then he has a fea, if not, he only got fleas [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img].

Aiwendil · 03-15-2002, 08:35 AM

I don't know if that Myths Transformed essay can be entirely trusted. Tolkien passed through many, many ideas over the course of those essays, and it's very difficult to tell what was final and what was not.

obloquy · 03-15-2002, 09:33 AM

That is true, Aiwendil, but in the case of Huan specifically there is no conflicting account elsewhere. In fact, the note indicating a certainty rather than a possibility (note 4 to the Myths Transformed text) was originally scribbled into the AAm texts and not MT. The Eagles are another story altogether.

lathspell · 03-29-2002, 01:10 PM

I do not know if Huan was a Maia or not, but he was in service of Oromë, who indeed gave him away to one of the sons of Feanor.
I think all animals in service of the Valar could speak or understand the tongues of humanoid races. Huan was permitted to speak three times and afterwards he would face his doom. The greater eagles in the service of Manwe had the ability of speech too... even Gwaihir and his eagles in the third age could speak to Bilbo, Gandalf and the dwarves in the Westron-tongue.

**The Saucepan Man** · 02-02-2003, 05:35 PM

Just thought that I'd resurrect this thread as, having just read the tale of Luthien and Beren, I was greatly taken by the character of Huan.

My immediate thought upon reading that Huan was originally one of Orome's Hounds was that he was one of the Maiar. I was delighted to see that this possibility is reflected in JRRT's writings.

One objection to this theory is that, as a Maia, he couldn't just be "given" to Celegorm. But, surely, if he was willing, he could have entered into the service of the Eldar. Is there any futher evidece of whether or not he was a Maia? If not, what are his likely origins? I suppose that there were creatures in Valinor that were not Maia, such as Ungoliant, and that they could enter into the service of the Valar, such as a non-Maia Huan might have done.

And, that aside, isn't Huan one of the great heroes of the Silmarillion? He personifies (if that is the right word, when dealing with dogs) the faithful and valiant hound, but happily is no longer prepared to be faithful when he perceives that his master (Celegorm) is doing wrong. Any character that kills that many werewolves (including the mightiest of their kind) and sees off Sauron must desreve a place amongst the truly great characters of JRRT's works.

Yavanna Kementari · 02-02-2003, 06:17 PM

To answer your question

Quote:

Does Huan have a fea

Yes Huan does have a fea. In the Silmarillion Huan gave counsil to Luthien. He understood the language of all things that spoke. He "understood" a key word.
Huan is called the The great wolf hound of Valinor he came from Valinor and was a servant to Oromë (Maia were the servants of the Vala*maybe* for there are many).
A key to prove this would be, Huan was both cursed ( by Celegorm) and he had a fate, To kill the Red Maw or Carcharoth.
And yes Everything has a spirit.Even to Tolkien [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] IMHO -(~<~> Yavanna

Deathwail · 02-02-2003, 06:22 PM

Pretty sure its a safe bet in Tolkien lore that if it can speak it has a Fea. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

03-13-2002, 08:31 PM	#1
Ahanarion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tirion upon Tuna Posts: 94	Did Huan have a fea? I've been wondering about this for a while. He could talk but he was a dog. It just doesn't make sense. __________________ Ohtari i Noldor Hosta!

03-13-2002, 11:14 PM	#3
Ahanarion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tirion upon Tuna Posts: 94	Perhaps I should rephrase that Did Huan have a spirit? Fea is Quenya for spirit. __________________ Ohtari i Noldor Hosta!

03-13-2002, 11:56 PM	#5
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,012	I agree with Birdland, all things have a fea, a spirit. But not all spirits are eternal. The men, dwarves, hobbits and elves had feas. The only one mentioned as being eternal are the elves. __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

03-14-2002, 12:00 AM	#6
Ahanarion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tirion upon Tuna Posts: 94	A thread in the canon Silmarillion forum is what made me think of this it is talking about orcish fear and it says that if orcs were beasts they would have no fear. __________________ Ohtari i Noldor Hosta!

03-14-2002, 09:54 AM	#7
Amarinth Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: realm of agonized volcanoes Posts: 113	yeah, i suppose huan has a fea. he seemed to have some perception of right or wrong, and if i remember correctly forsook the service of the sons of feanor when they tried to do bad bad things to luthien and beren. if he was just a beast, he would have simply obeyed his baser instincts or the wishes of his master. dunno bout orcs though... --------------------------------------------- every man's life is a path to the truth -- hesse __________________ pity this busy monster,manunkind, not / -progress is a comfortable disease;/ your victim (death and life safely beyond) / plays with the bigness of his littleness ---ee cummings

03-13-2002, 10:17 PM	#2
Huan Guest Posts: n/a	Not sure about the fea, but there could be a flea. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

03-13-2002, 11:42 PM	#4
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,751	OK, going out on a limb, here... All living things have a spirit. "My-dog-has-fea!" (Only thing I learned to play on the guitar. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] )

03-14-2002, 03:35 PM	#9
Nufaciel Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 133	Yeah, you're right. Huan was a Maia. __________________ Member of Pervy Elf Fanciers Anonymous...I need professional help.

03-14-2002, 07:25 PM	#10
Huan Guest Posts: n/a	Wasn't huan originally orom's (the valar who first found the elves)? I thought I read in the silmarillion that orom gave him to one of feanor's sons (forgot the name again [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]). If huan is a maia, how can orom just gave him away? It's just too disrespectful imho [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. Neverthless, I think only iluvatar's children have feas. The only known ones are elves and humans. Maybe dwarves too but it's more or less adopted :P. So, if iluvatar made huan and gave him a purpose, then he has a fea, if not, he only got fleas [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img].

03-15-2002, 08:35 AM	#11
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	I don't know if that Myths Transformed essay can be entirely trusted. Tolkien passed through many, many ideas over the course of those essays, and it's very difficult to tell what was final and what was not.

03-15-2002, 09:33 AM	#12
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 941	That is true, Aiwendil, but in the case of Huan specifically there is no conflicting account elsewhere. In fact, the note indicating a certainty rather than a possibility (note 4 to the Myths Transformed text) was originally scribbled into the AAm texts and not MT. The Eagles are another story altogether.

03-29-2002, 01:10 PM	#13
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	I do not know if Huan was a Maia or not, but he was in service of Oromë, who indeed gave him away to one of the sons of Feanor. I think all animals in service of the Valar could speak or understand the tongues of humanoid races. Huan was permitted to speak three times and afterwards he would face his doom. The greater eagles in the service of Manwe had the ability of speech too... even Gwaihir and his eagles in the third age could speak to Bilbo, Gandalf and the dwarves in the Westron-tongue. __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'

02-02-2003, 05:35 PM	#14
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Just thought that I'd resurrect this thread as, having just read the tale of Luthien and Beren, I was greatly taken by the character of Huan. My immediate thought upon reading that Huan was originally one of Orome's Hounds was that he was one of the Maiar. I was delighted to see that this possibility is reflected in JRRT's writings. One objection to this theory is that, as a Maia, he couldn't just be "given" to Celegorm. But, surely, if he was willing, he could have entered into the service of the Eldar. Is there any futher evidece of whether or not he was a Maia? If not, what are his likely origins? I suppose that there were creatures in Valinor that were not Maia, such as Ungoliant, and that they could enter into the service of the Valar, such as a non-Maia Huan might have done. And, that aside, isn't Huan one of the great heroes of the Silmarillion? He personifies (if that is the right word, when dealing with dogs) the faithful and valiant hound, but happily is no longer prepared to be faithful when he perceives that his master (Celegorm) is doing wrong. Any character that kills that many werewolves (including the mightiest of their kind) and sees off Sauron must desreve a place amongst the truly great characters of JRRT's works. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

02-02-2003, 06:22 PM	#16
Deathwail Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Door of Night Posts: 99	Pretty sure its a safe bet in Tolkien lore that if it can speak it has a Fea. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ He who arises in Might.