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06-16-2004, 02:28 PM | #1 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 92
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Nazguls vs. Eagles in the Black Gate
I was rewatching RotK, and found something rather interesting, and to me, somewhat disappointing.
I don't know if anybody else noticed, but in the Battle of the Morannon, the Eagles fight the Nazguls. If you look carefully, as one of the Eagles battle a Fell Beast, a Nazgul falls off and drops to the ground. If you know what to look for, it's clear, and it's unmistakable. I'd post a screenshot, but I don't know how. Just look carefully and you'll see it. Also, when Sauron summons the Nazguls back, only 3 of them are seen in the movie. I'm guessing that's the reason. I don't know what anybody else thinks, but somehow, I find the thought that the Nazguls are defeated so easily disappointing. Of course, they may not have died after falling, but I wonder what would happen to it after. |
06-16-2004, 02:53 PM | #2 |
Laconic Loreman
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Fear not Fighting
First of all PJ had the fell beasts done wrong. The fell Beast weren't huge dragon sized animals they were much smaller then the dragons in size.
2nd of all the Nazgul's main weapon is fear. They are formidable opponents at fighting and not many people could take on all 9 Nazgul at once (Glorfindel, Gandalf were the only ones that tried who were able to). But their main weapon was their fear, the shriek that they yelled was loud and destroyed the hearts of men. Lastly, the black breath was their most devastating attack, thats what Faramir, Merry, and Eowyn suffered from. |
06-16-2004, 03:04 PM | #3 |
Auspicious Wraith
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 4,859
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I agree with you as regards fear not fighting Boromir88, however I'm not sure I agree with your other point. There are certainly other artists' impressions of the winged beasts that are similarly huge in size.
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06-16-2004, 06:53 PM | #4 | ||
Raffish Rapscallion
Join Date: Apr 2003
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I didn't like the Nazgul vs. Eagles scene if only because (& correct me if I'm wrong here) in every scene were an Eagle was attacking a fell beast, the Eagle was dominating. Personally, I don't think 9 Eagles could even hope to take down 9 fell beasts, perhaps I'm wrong, but that's always been my opinion. And I also agree that I thought it was pretty stupid to show a Ringwraith falling off his steed, though it's not a big issue with me. |
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06-16-2004, 10:24 PM | #5 | ||
A Shade of Westernesse
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The last wave over Atalantë
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Also, where did you get the idea that there were nine Eagles pitted against the nine Ringwraiths?
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06-17-2004, 08:46 AM | #6 |
Auspicious Wraith
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Netherlands
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Yes, I agree that it's not too important a detail. I quite liked the scene, it was an impressive visual. I didn't notice that the Wraith fell off though. Next time I see the movie that's going to bug me.
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06-17-2004, 02:46 PM | #8 | ||
Raffish Rapscallion
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The main point here is: Behind them in long siwft lines came all their vassals from the mountains speeding on a gathering wind. To me, this explains that the Nazgul turned & fled because they were severly outnumbered. I don't doubt that even just 15-20 eagles could do in all the fell beasts (not the wraiths of course), but, by what I saw in the movies, it was implied that there was roughly 1 to 1. Hopefully I'll be checking again just to be sure tommorrow night (my copy is lent out to my sister & her friends so that they can watch all three of the lotr movies), & if I see more eagles I could be retracting the statements I've made. The EE might show (clearly) that there were more eagles as well. I just had a slight problem with how easily the fell beasts were dispatched of in the theatrical...from what I remember . |
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06-17-2004, 09:35 PM | #9 | |||
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 92
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Hm...somehow nobody commented on the nazguls falling off the fell beasts, which was my main point.
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If there's still any doubt, there's this line as well: Quote:
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06-17-2004, 09:49 PM | #10 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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I didn't think the Eagles scene was good for those who hadn't read the books. I'm sure it raised many questions amongst movie-goers as to why the Eagles weren't helping prior to the storming of the black gate. And then you'd have to get into a huge discussion on the Eagles and how they stand in Middle-Earth. Headache!
By the way, what's up with the end of the movie when they are carrying frodo and sam away? The Eagle picks up frodo as he's lying on his back. Therefore Frodo is facing up. This is confirmed in the close up when his head is hung backwards. But somehow an eagle flies beneath frodo in that shot- from the looks of it belly up. This would mean the eagle is flying upside down!! Hm...
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06-18-2004, 03:46 AM | #11 | ||||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 886
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Also, weren't the Eagles created by Manwe as some form of 'spirit'. i.e. akin to Gandalf's Istari?
Just hunting in the Silmarillion and I've found this about Manwe: Quote:
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So I think these few examples show that the Fell Beasts (and the Nazgul, without their Lieutenant) were NO match for the Eagles of Manwe……… |
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06-18-2004, 07:14 AM | #12 |
Laconic Loreman
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Yes
Essex,
You have brought up the point right there, why the eagles couldn't help from the beginning. Many people think that Radagast had control over the eagles. Radagast had no control over the eagles it was Manwe. Radagast only sent Gwaihir to get news about Gandalf (and Gwaihir agreed). Gwaihir by his own decision decided to save Gandalf, since Gandalf healed Gwaihir from a poison arrow, Gwaihir owed Gandalf one. This has been a topic I've seen discussed before, being the fact that Eagles have other things to do, and the fact that Manwe controlled the Eagles. |
06-18-2004, 03:31 PM | #13 | |||
Raffish Rapscallion
Join Date: Apr 2003
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06-18-2004, 05:37 PM | #14 |
A Shade of Westernesse
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The last wave over Atalantë
Posts: 515
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My mistake for being too lazy to read an entire sentence. I still doubt, though, that a host of Eagles would have been defeated by the Ringwraiths, and also doubt that Tolkien, being a linguist, would have used the word "fled" if he had not meant it to connote some level of fear of the Eagles.
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"This miserable drizzling afternoon I have been reading up old military lecture-notes again:- and getting bored with them after an hour and a half. I have done some touches to my nonsense fairy language - to its improvement." |
06-29-2004, 10:15 AM | #15 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor.
Posts: 420
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Well there was the unimaginable fear of Sauron running through them at that moment - the fear that the Ring would be destoryed, and that He (and therefore they) would die.
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