On Fairy-Stories - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Arwen Imladris · 10-11-2002, 02:53 PM

Is LOTR a fairy tale? What is a fairy tale any way? Tolkien wrote an easay "On Fairy-Stories" that I have been reading. I thought that this might be a good place to discuse it.

This is (I think) a vert good quote about fairy tales.

Quote:

The realm of fairy-story is wide and deep and high and filled with many things: all manner of beasts and birds are found there; shoreless seas and stars uncounted; beauty that is an enchantment, and an ever-present peril; both joy and sorrow as sharp as swords. In that realm a man may, perhaps, count himself fortunate to have wandered, but its very richness and strangeness tie the tongue of a traveller who would report them. And while he is there it is dangerous for him to ask too many questions, lest the gates should be shut and the keys be lost.

I think that LOTR counts as a fairy tale, what do you think?

Elenna · 10-11-2002, 04:10 PM

I consider it more as an epic. It has all the elements - a hero, monsters, katabasis, a tragic hero...

Sorry. As a literature nut, I could go on and on. But I do think you're right, Arwen. Tolkien actually intended his writing to be fairy tales. In many ways, it mirrors the archetypes found in a lot of our fairy tales.

If you read something like the Odyssey, or even the Wizard of Oz, you can see a lot of parallels. That's because Tolkien's characters are archetypes - ideas that are common across cultures and across time.

Elven-Maiden · 10-11-2002, 06:32 PM

I think that Lord of the Rings is a very "deep" fairy tale. It goes beyond it, and is practically perfect in every way! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Guildo · 10-11-2002, 08:31 PM

an Epic YES
a Fairy Tail YES

Perhaps an Epic Fairy Tale,
But to me Tolkien is the Master of Emotion, One that can describe something that words cant describe, and make it sound as real as the light of day, for this reason i call his stories Surreality Fantasy..........OK its Makes no sense im not as good with words as Tolkien himself.

ainur · 10-11-2002, 11:57 PM

We are, perhaps, used to thinking of Fairy Tales as more light-hearted or shallow, intended for children. Andersen's Thumbellina or the Fables of Aesop. But if you read a loyal translation of the Brothers Grimm, you realize just how 'adult' some of these folktales can be. Think of the real violence of the Woodsman bringing Snow White's heart back to the queen in a box. And some of the Tales of the Arabian Nights are out-and-out, deliberate pornography. Certainly what Tolkien was referring to was the 'realm of Faerie' as was mentioned in your quote, the realm of dreams, perhaps, and the psychology of the soul. It is the world of Jung and Wagner, of Poe and Cuchulain. It's entry hides under the bed or in the closet and, most importantly, inside us all. Welcome to The Twilight Zone. It is all Faerie, and in that sense, yes, all of Arda is a Fairy Tale, for it lies within each of us.

littlemanpoet · 10-12-2002, 10:36 AM

Your question is for me closely related to "It feels different near the Shire". For me, LOTR includes Faerie story and goes beyond it. JRRT called it a romance, having the same scope and drama and high mindedness of Medieval romances. The section you quote from "On Faerie Stories" puts me most in mind of Smith of Wooton Major. I think of that short story as Tolkien's purest evocation of Faerie story. The Hobbit also has a strong element of Faerie story. I think that particular sections of LOTR have a strong element of Faerie story, such as the Old Forest, the House of Tom Bombadil, even the Barrows downs. But once you get into the part of LOTR that is dominated by the Ring, it goes beyond Faerie story. At least for me. I love LOTR, don't get me wrong! But it doesn't all have the same FEEL for me as Faerie story.

Amanaduial the archer · 10-12-2002, 10:44 AM

the point of fairie stories is meant to be that they have fairies involved. but then you think of things like snow white, which has no fairies, only dwarves. and LOTR has dwarves. Ah well.
However, when i think of fairie stories, i think fo something you might read to little children and i cant see myself reading a 5 year old Lord of The Rings, unless that was one real clever 5 year old.
It has the elements of a faerie story.
It has the elements of an epic. Ill always think of it as an epic though.

Is that essay on the web by the way? Id like to read it.

10-11-2002, 04:10 PM	#2
Elenna A Ghostly Light Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: My private bubble of innocence Posts: 563	I consider it more as an epic. It has all the elements - a hero, monsters, katabasis, a tragic hero... Sorry. As a literature nut, I could go on and on. But I do think you're right, Arwen. Tolkien actually intended his writing to be fairy tales. In many ways, it mirrors the archetypes found in a lot of our fairy tales. If you read something like the Odyssey, or even the Wizard of Oz, you can see a lot of parallels. That's because Tolkien's characters are archetypes - ideas that are common across cultures and across time. __________________ If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is "God is crying." And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is "Probably because of something you did."

10-11-2002, 06:32 PM	#3
Elven-Maiden Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 297	I think that Lord of the Rings is a very "deep" fairy tale. It goes beyond it, and is practically perfect in every way! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Tout ce qui est or ne brille pas, Tous ceux qui errent ne sont pas perdus. Mobilis in Mobile

10-11-2002, 08:31 PM	#4
Guildo Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Forgoten lands of the South Posts: 119	an Epic YES a Fairy Tail YES Perhaps an Epic Fairy Tale, But to me Tolkien is the Master of Emotion, One that can describe something that words cant describe, and make it sound as real as the light of day, for this reason i call his stories Surreality Fantasy..........OK its Makes no sense im not as good with words as Tolkien himself. __________________ "You cant always get what you want.... But if you try sometimes you just my find.... you get what you need." Glen Sight

10-11-2002, 11:57 PM	#5
ainur Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis MN Posts: 72	We are, perhaps, used to thinking of Fairy Tales as more light-hearted or shallow, intended for children. Andersen's Thumbellina or the Fables of Aesop. But if you read a loyal translation of the Brothers Grimm, you realize just how 'adult' some of these folktales can be. Think of the real violence of the Woodsman bringing Snow White's heart back to the queen in a box. And some of the Tales of the Arabian Nights are out-and-out, deliberate pornography. Certainly what Tolkien was referring to was the 'realm of Faerie' as was mentioned in your quote, the realm of dreams, perhaps, and the psychology of the soul. It is the world of Jung and Wagner, of Poe and Cuchulain. It's entry hides under the bed or in the closet and, most importantly, inside us all. Welcome to The Twilight Zone. It is all Faerie, and in that sense, yes, all of Arda is a Fairy Tale, for it lies within each of us. __________________ Yet all the while I sit and think of times there were before, I listen for returning feet and voices at the door.

10-12-2002, 10:44 AM	#7
Amanaduial the archer Shadow of Starlight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: dancing among the ledgerlines... Posts: 2,347	the point of fairie stories is meant to be that they have fairies involved. but then you think of things like snow white, which has no fairies, only dwarves. and LOTR has dwarves. Ah well. However, when i think of fairie stories, i think fo something you might read to little children and i cant see myself reading a 5 year old Lord of The Rings, unless that was one real clever 5 year old. It has the elements of a faerie story. It has the elements of an epic. Ill always think of it as an epic though. Is that essay on the web by the way? Id like to read it. __________________ I am what I was, a harmless little devil

10-12-2002, 10:36 AM	#6
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Your question is for me closely related to "It feels different near the Shire". For me, LOTR includes Faerie story and goes beyond it. JRRT called it a romance, having the same scope and drama and high mindedness of Medieval romances. The section you quote from "On Faerie Stories" puts me most in mind of Smith of Wooton Major. I think of that short story as Tolkien's purest evocation of Faerie story. The Hobbit also has a strong element of Faerie story. I think that particular sections of LOTR have a strong element of Faerie story, such as the Old Forest, the House of Tom Bombadil, even the Barrows downs. But once you get into the part of LOTR that is dominated by the Ring, it goes beyond Faerie story. At least for me. I love LOTR, don't get me wrong! But it doesn't all have the same FEEL for me as Faerie story.