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Old 05-23-2008, 02:14 PM   #1
Eönwë
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Elves- A second puberty?

Well, I know this sounds strange, but I've been thinking about this for a while now.

Well, I started thinking about Cirdan (you know, a bearded mariner who is a first generation elf, probably over 15000 years old). Just why does he have a beard? Is it because he just has a genetic disorder (or some rare genes)? Or is there another reason- Was it because he was old?

Well, we know that Elrond was very old, and is described as such:

Quote:
Originally Posted by fotr
The face of Elrond was ageless, neither old nor young…his hair was dark…[he was] hale as a tried warrior in the fullness of his strength
Whereas Cirdan:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotk
His beard was long, and he was grey and old
I was thinking that maybe after their 10000th year, elves stop being so youthful, and start getting grey. Even after however many years Elrond lived, he had black hair. But Cirdan was far older, and was going grey, and what I am saying is that maybe when they get to a certain age, elves get a beard.

After all, Cirdan is the oldest elf left in Middle Earth (that we are told about) so we have no-one to compare him to. And even if the first generation elves in Aman have not grown grey and bearded, that may be because they are in the Blessed Realm, the Immortal Land, where things do not grow old.

Is there anything in the works of Tolkien that mention anything about this or am I just picking at nonexistent ideas? And does anyone know of other bearded elves?
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:46 PM   #2
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Tolkien once wrote (published in Vinyar Tengwar):
'Elves did not have beards until they entered their third cycle of life. Nerdanel's father was exceptional, being only early in his second.'
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:55 PM   #3
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Well, the beardedness is one thing, but the silver hair of Círdan is simply token of his kinship with Elwë Singollo. To quote from The Peoples of Middle-Earth:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolkien, in The Peoples of Middle-Earth
Círdan was a Telerin Elf, one of the highest of those who were not transported to Valinor but became known as the Sindar, the Grey-elves; he was akin to Olwë, one of the two kings of the Teleri, and lord of those who departed over the Great Sea. He was thus also akin to Elwë, Olwë's older brother, acknowledged as high king of all the Teleri in Beleriand.
The most other notable relative of Elwë and Olwë, in regards to silver hair is Celeborn, grandson of their younger brother, Elmo, but his mother-in-law, Eärwen of Alqualondë. In Unfinished Tales, it is said of Galadriel's hair:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolkien, in Unfinished Tales
[Her hair] was golden like the hair of her father and of her foremother Indis, but it was richer and more radiant, for its gold was touched by some memory of the starlike silver of her mother...
Now, it can be argued other ways, but it should be quite clear that if the relatively young and child-bearing Eärwen (Elves give up marital relations later on in life, according the LACE) is noted for silver hair, then among Elves this clearly does not denote old age.

Beardedness can, though.
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Old 05-24-2008, 09:23 AM   #4
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Does grey = silver though when it comes to describing elven hair?

Brightness seems to be a characteristic of silver hair e.g. "the hair of the Lord Celeborn was of silver long and bright" and the reference to the "starlike silver" of Earwen's hair.

In RotK, Tolkien describes Cirdan as "grey and old". There is no mention of silver there. Whatever his original hair colour might have been, by the time the Ringbearers set sail, it would appear that Cirdan was actually grey.
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Old 05-24-2008, 03:06 PM   #5
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Thingol was said to have had 'long and beautiful hair of silver hue' in Quendi And Eldar, and his hair is described as grey silver in The Grey Annals.

In 'Of the Coming of the Elves' (The Later Quenta Silmarillion I) there is a description of both Olwe and Elwe concerning their hair: 'The locks of Sindo were as grey as silver... but the hair of Elwe was long and white' (name changes include Elwe > Solwe, Sindo > Elwe).

By the end of revision here, in 'Of the Coming of the Elves' as it stood in LQI, the hair of the brothers is again described, and now Olwe's hair is long and white but the hair of Elwe was grey as silver.
'The Loremasters also supposed that reference was made to the hair of the Sindar. Elwe himself had indeed long and beautiful hair of silver hue, but this does not seem to have been a common feature of the Sindar, though it was found among them occasionally, especially in the nearer or remoter kin of Elwe (as in the case of Círdan).' JRRT Q&E
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Old 05-24-2008, 03:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galin View Post
Thingol was said to have had 'long and beautiful hair of silver hue' in Quendi And Eldar, and his hair is described as grey silver in The Grey Annals.

In 'Of the Coming of the Elves' (The Later Quenta Silmarillion I) there is a description of both Olwe and Elwe concerning their hair: 'The locks of Sindo were as grey as silver... but the hair of Elwe was long and white' (name changes include Elwe > Solwe, Sindo > Elwe).

By the end of revision here, in 'Of the Coming of the Elves' as it stood in LQI, the hair of the brothers is again described, and now Olwe's hair is long and white but the hair of Elwe was grey as silver.
'The Loremasters also supposed that reference was made to the hair of the Sindar. Elwe himself had indeed long and beautiful hair of silver hue, but this does not seem to have been a common feature of the Sindar, though it was found among them occasionally, especially in the nearer or remoter kin of Elwe (as in the case of Círdan).' JRRT Q&E
In both the instances that you cite, the word "grey" is qualified by the use of "silver". In the case of the description of Cirdan at the end of RotK "grey" is qualified by the word "old" with no mention of silver at all. My point is not that Cirdan, once upon a time, did not have silver hair but that at the end of the RotK it appears that it is old age grey.
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