First Verse:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron
With the Western Wind behind me
No excuses now.
Lies are poison foul
'No excuses now' to imply 'they've all been stripped away'. I might even go with 'no illusions now' - how does this match the Russian? It's got a nice double-meaning in English, referring to both his disguise illusions, and the illusion that the Rebellion was glorious.
'Lies are poison foul' - Jareth!Finrod sings it so this would scan. 'Lies poison's foul' would work if we absolutely need to cut a syllable out.
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"Without excuses [for myself? for the Noldor?], I stand before you rimmed by the Western Winds".
I like "No excuses now", and I also like "no illusions now". "Illusions" gives it a different meaning from the source text, but depending on how Finrod's song proceeds (ie when he
does start making excuses) it might be worthwhile to revisit this point.
"Lies are poison foul" should be 4 syllables, I am again confused at how they got 5 out of it. The way I have the melody in my head I can't get the 5th one to fit on any end.
Verse 2: Sauron
Loving the malevolence drip from his tongue.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hui
That second line draws from the original translation, rather than the literal meaning.
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Uhhhh... the translation of the Lay? Sorry, out of my depth here. But it makes sense in this context - and if there is somehow a connection to Finrod's last words to Beren, all the better!
Verse 2: Finrod
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hui
Where harps are playing
Unchanging is their song
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Hmm, interesting. He says "the strings of the lyres keep silent about the power of years", which I took to mean "our legends (and even Arda's Song itself, perhaps) don't reveal what is to come, the ultimate end [and therefore Light might still triumph]".
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hui
And at my shoulder
Shines a peaceful world untainted
Rising like the dawn.
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Love this!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hui
Mem'ry is strong
Naught is forgot; rememb'ring
Guards me from all harm
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I was gonna suggest "remembrance", but then remembered it's also supposed to rhyme. :/
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hui
Where falsehoods and illusions
Vanish with the night
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I will suggest a small detail, a switch to "
While falsehoods etc". This makes a more direct comparison to the preceding line. Also, I really like these two lines.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hui
Beneath the skies illumined
With untarnished light
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Love this very much!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hui
The only line I'm really unhappy with is "This Law is right". I think my non-rhyming version was just "This is the Law".
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I will give it a ponder. :-)
Sauron Again
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hui
Might as well do Sauron, since we've already got most of this bit!
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This is how I did all the translations, lol. "Let me work on this for 5 minutes -- might as well do one more stanza -- but I have an idea! -- and 5 hours later".
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hui
He who breaks the chains that bind him from his freedom earned
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Iiiinteresting. You're the second Downer to put the emphasis on that part of the line (the first was Legate who I messaged about the awesomeness of the Duel).
Sauron says: "Power/strength can belong only to those who can without doubt/hesitation tear the chains of thralldom". It's so interesting that both you and Legate picked up on the thralldom part; he linked it with the Noldor's semi-rebellion against the Valar's yoke, I'm not sure if you intended the same thing. But I and my friend (not that one, another one) picked up more on the "doubt". You are only strong if you have confidence in your rightness your self-doubt becomes your shackles. Both Duels can be seen as a struggle of confidences, who is more sure of what they stand for. And therefore Finrod loses as soon as he gets defensive.
Two different takes on the same line. I wonder if it's possible to preserve both interpretations.
Who breaks without doubt the chains that bind his freedom earned?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hui
But Elves are naught but slaves who ever curse their rightful Lords
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"But" should probably go. It works in the other Duel because it's the first line Sauron says, he has room for overhang. But this falls in the middle of the rant, and, though possible, it's uncomfortable to squeeze in "but" - which isn't critical to the sentence anyways.
[Edit: I listened to the L&S Duel again, and actually he has the overhang there in Russian just like he does with "but"! But he still doesn't here, and I think it would flow better without.]
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hui
Games of light and darkness are beyond your feeble kind
You are mine to do with whatsoe'er I bring to mind!
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Nothing wrong with this rhyme, and "bring to mind" is well-suited for Sauron. When I read this initially, this alternative also occurred to me: "You are mine to do with whatsoever I decide!", which is a pretty close fit for rhyme, but perhaps not as interesting of a phrase.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hui
I can tell both translators liked this song: they've made more effort to fit the rhythm and rhymes than for most of the others. Hopefully I'm doing it justice.
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I think it's overall, content and music and acting and overall aesthetic combined, the most memorable song in the musical. The pinnacle, so to speak. It's hard not to be impressed by it.
As I told you before, I would never even attempt this song, because it's so difficult to preserve both the aesthetic and the content. So far you're doing amazing! I have no idea how you can deal with Finrod's rhymes, which will surely tangle Death itself in their boughs even if the Trees fail. :P