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Old 09-26-2021, 10:16 AM   #525
Galadriel55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
I think a lot of those are actually accents: "Feana'ro" is just "Fëanáro", badly formatted. Some of them are still apostrophes, like Vard' and tenn' (that one's Tolkien's fault).
...Ooooh! That makes way more sense. I wonder why it's so prevalent. But it makes sense at least!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
First off, technically I've written about this! Dafydd Illian is a fictionally-created copy of Maglor (it's complicated), and when she hears this song his wife has Questions.
Lol. I loved the "you've got the Canon right now". And I love the translation! Do you have a full English version?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
As Dafydd says, the answer is buried in HoME XII: apparently it's a note Tolkien jotted in one of his copies of RotK, saying that "Maedros" was unwedded, as were the twins, one of whom burned with the ships, and Celegorm, because he planned to marry Luthien. He notes that Curufin was married, and his son (Celebrimbor) followed him when his wife did not; then ends with "Others who were wedded were Maelor, Caranthir". And that's literally all we know about Mrs Maglor.

(This, and an associated note, are the reason Christopher put Celebrimbor as Curufin's son in the published Silm, so they're weightier than they look canon-wise.)

I actually thought it was about Curufin's wife, who Silm-canonically exists, but I can't find the source of that belief. ^_^
I am still processing this information. It's having trouble fitting in among my current world constructs.

I mean, sure, Curufin the Jerk couldn't have been the only son of Feanor to find a wife. But there is literally no indication in the Sil that the others had any romantic relationships at all in their lives, and I am so unused to the idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hui
I feel like the Quenya is pretty clearly Maglor talking about his wife. The only people he would describe as coming from Melkor are his own accursed house, surely!
That makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
... errrrr, the Russian transcription I have in my link runs like this:

Из-за тумана, из-за воды
смотрит всевидящее око.
Женщина.
Сон больного разума.
Да будет благословенным твой путь.

Have I managed to get a Google Translated version of the Russian in there somehow? I can't imagine how, but it's possible.
No, you've just managed to get the literal translation, as opposed to the verse one. This is what the Quenya means, but not what is sung in the second section. Here are the sung lyrics:

Нет мне дома и за морем,
И в далях туманных полей.
Нет покоя, как нет и сердца -
Ты сожгла его до корней.

Только валар создать могли
Тебя, любимая, дочь земли.
Варда свет подарила белый,
Напоила Яванна хмелем.
Ульмо дал тебе пенный образ,
Ауле вылепил дивный облик.
Несса с тела сняла оковы,
Мелькор заставил любить другого.

Одинок Феанаро сын,
Нет преданных ныне ему.
Слушай, дева, чьи кудри злато,
Ты, что создана мне на беду:
Я бессмертен, нет худшей доли -
Мне не видеть тебя, доколе

За туманы, за гладь воды
Не уйдут и мои следы;
За тобою, чей путь был краток,
Как летящий по ветру дым.


With regards to the authorship, I haven't been able to find the origin source, but people on Russian discussion forums seem to agree that Quenya lyrics are by Khatul, Russian lyrics are by Lora Bocharova, and most well-known sung version is by Aire and Saruman (a group that is known for making covers for other people's poetry).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
I'm not sure the singer's enunciation is clear enough to distinguish nen from men; I've got it as Nen in my copy of the lyrics, and I don't think I would have corrected it.
Regarding her enunciation - the one comment on your video praises the music and the voice, but says that the pronunciation leaves much to be desired. And, after listening alongside the written lyrics, I have to agree. She muddles a lot of the pronunciation.

However, regarding nen/men, all the sites where I've found the lyrics have "men". I feel like it's probably been typed once incorrectly and then copied everywhere without spellcheck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
I also stand by what Dafydd said: it describes her as blonde. Can you imagine Feanor's reaction to his son marrying a Vanya? The Kinslaying at Alqualonde would have nothing on this!


I actually wondered if she was perhaps Teleri, killed at the Kinslaying, when still trying to reconcile the fleeting smoke on the wind imagery with the Quenya where she is not mortal. But this is all rubbish. Yes, OMG, how did Maglor not get disowned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
EDIT: I've just looked up Maglor (actually Maelor) in NoME, and he only has one reference, but it's a "what?!" moment:

Like, it's almost certainly a typo for Maedhros, but if so, why no mention of Fingon? The "source" of the text appears to be a late (Gondorian?) footnote to a Numenorean text, so again, it's probably meant to be Maedhros; but you have to wonder...
I agree. Surely it's referring to Maedhros and Fingon, because... What story did Maglor ever have that could possibly involve Eagles?


PS: Does Russian really sound like the Black Speech?
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