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Old 09-21-2020, 04:22 PM   #274
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
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Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
Oh! I didn't realise I stuck that close. Then we should probably keep cursed, which is entirely accurate. I just think it's a bit insulting to them. ^_~ ("Fate-bound" or something would be my choice if it were just me randomly writing lines, but it is not.)
Yeah - it's not exact (they use "stones" rather than "Silmarils", but same difference) - but the "cursed" is a direct translation. HOWEVER. I think depending on the meaning we wish to convey with the stanza as a whole, I don't feel it would be wrong to have fate-bound or fateful or something of that sort. They do use "ill-fated" several times throughout the musical, which we often changed to "cursed" for scansion, so this might be considered payback. I kept trying to insert that word somewhere into the lyrics, but it just kept dropping right back out. So a certain part of me will be quite pleased. A certain part of me though is still wondering where exactly this is heading and how metaphorical vs explicit it is - more to follow below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
In the literal sense, 'sky-ships' can only mean two things: the Sun and Moon, or Earendil. Or... is there any chance they were aiming for 'winged ships', ie, the swan-ships of the Teleri? I know Amarie specifically evokes their burning, which means when Finrod talks about burning ships in Truth he may mean the same thing.
So, here are a few thoughts. In a very disorganized manner, because I am not even sure where to start.

- They are "ships of the skies". "Wings" are not mentioned, and that would not be my first assumption on hearing the words. However, what the intention of the authors was, I cannot say for certain.
- Feanor's bonfire party was what I originally assumed Finrod was referring to. My first read (/listen) was "vague filler about dust - ship-burning to reference the brother turning on brother theme - Silmarils are cursed, turned from representing the Light to representing Morgoth's darkness and the Fall - but brighter than all of these things burns... whatever Finrod realized upon his death".
- My revisited interpretation features Valinor. But I am still not sure if it's Valinor as it was in Finrod's memory, or will be (when Earendil comes? when the Noldor are forgiven? in Arda Remade?). Or, what I am actually leaning towards, the present Valinor as Finrod's fea approaches it.
- If it's Valinor of the future, then the Ship should probably be Earendil (burning in the sunset only metaphorically), and then the Silmarils should definitely not be cursed but fateful/fate-bound/whatever, because the line of thought is a positive one.
- If it is Valinor of the present, then I still think the theme of the middle lines is dark, matching the dark present Finrod is leaving and contrasting the burning of the ships and stones with the fire that's brighter. It reads more like: I am approaching Valinor, leaving Middle-earth where evil is strong - but now I am sure, and not just hopeful, that there is something stronger still, and evil won't last. In this case, I would say that either cursed or fate-something would still apply, they both have sufficient gloom, so both options are still on the table.
- But this doesn't help me figure out what memory Finrod is trying to affirm in Prison! What is his "this once was" talking about? Dust - sure, both Valinor and the beauty/goodness of life metaphorically. Ships? The metaphor might still apply, but only stretched thinly. I sometimes feel that the line is literally only there for linking with Truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Oh yeah, Nogrod's a place. I've found myself trying to bold mentions of canon characters from time to time, so I get where you're coming from. ^_^
I haven't bolded characters' names yet, but maybe it's only because since switching to my phone as the more frequent means of Downsing I got rather lazy with the bolding. But have you ever accidentally referred to Manwe's herald as Steve? It's bad...
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
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