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Old 07-19-2020, 03:47 PM   #130
Galadriel55
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
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Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
-I... can't make the Elves' first section scan. I can just about handle the second half ('Like hammer') if 'shield' is two syllables and so is 'ham'ring', but the first half escapes me.
Yes, "shield" became 2 syllables and "hammering" either overlaps with Sauron's line or becomes "ham'ring".

In the first line, "chills" is also 2 syllables.
Second line: And - the - dark - is - friiiiight - en - iiiiing (where they do a little melodic trill on the last syllable).

I think it works, but that stanza tripped me up as well. I thought I fixed it, but I will do a sing along again to see if it works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
I think I can suggest 'raised' to replace 'cracked' for the shield, to evoke Fingolfin before Morgoth. I feel like there's better options than frightening (kind of understated) and hammering (repeat of hammer), but without knowing how they're meant to scan... :-/
Yes! "Raised!" That is perfect. I will think about the other two. I agree about "frightening", it's a bit too "aww, you're scared of the dark". But like you I have no replacement at the moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Elves again... I'm finding more syllables than you've written (a completely different issue to last time!). I think I can safely suggest changing the last line to 'By ship or floe' (as in ice floe), but the rest is beyond me.
"Floe" taken. In all of the lines I ended up having to double-note the last syllable (like in "shield" the first time). High, Ice, twice are all stretched. Does that help any? Or are the lines just too messy and need to be completely reworked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Sauron 2... I see your problem. How about this:

I feel ill at ease about that purported minstrel
Who would dare to challenge me with song in battle fell
Next to him, the rest of them won't give me any gain
Let the strongest warrior the last alive remain!
Thank you! This works wonderfully!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Elves & Finrod: this scans perfectly, so I don't know what's throwing me off earlier! I actually quite like the arrow/ruthless/breath/song setup you have.
Hmm, it's the same meter and all... The only difference is now "ruthless" takes up 2 syllables and doesn't need to be stretched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
I don't think once/times works as a rhyme, but how about 'falls'? If the second line runs [i]Let him face it many times as each companion falls![i], then I think it works.
Hmm, okay. I'm not sure the rhyme is better - at least in my accent. But it takes care of the repeating "but", which was bugging me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
The third... take the second version, but change 'before his' to 'in his own', to emphasise that it's Finrod's own mind that will make him responsible?
I see. I guess the "witness" element is implied throughout the stanza, so the "eyes" can be put to different use. Good point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Finrod! I'm... not entirely clear on what Finrod is saying here (in the original either). I think the first line might work better as 'The price you've set, my honour to defame', to explicitly refer back to Sauron's own 'price'. The last line... um, Finrod, he just said it's the right price, not that it's too high. And wouldn't Sauron be more 'such a little price to pay'? Do you understand what he's saying?
I think they're just flipping around what is being "bought" and what is being "sold", therefore "price" means different things in the same transaction as it's viewed from different angles - in the original too.

"For his bold impertinence this is a worthy price": both "you ****ed me off, so take that", as well as "let's see how much it will take to break your bold impertinence". The price therefore grows proportionally with Finrod's stubbornness and refusal to give information.

"The price for which my honour to defame": more like how much suffering he will be spared if he agrees to Sauron's terms. (He flips "price" to the inverted value, if that makes sense?) I think your version could work here.

"Your price seems too lavish": back to the initial meaning. His growing suffering is NOT too high a price to pay for his honour, though Sauron the inquisitor [supposedly, but not in the actual text] implies it is, because that is what would convince a prisoner to yield. In Russian, Finrod uses the word "payment" rather than "price" here. The payment for his honour. "Don't lie to me that payment seems excessive!" Would that sound better?

It's like:
Be stubborn = suffer
Less suffering = give up honour
Therefore, Be stubborn = keep honour but also keep suffering.
Price for honour is suffering, price for "less suffering" is "less honour". And the "price" is different versions of that equation thrown around in different order, so it's at once too big and too small and just right.

I agree, the element missing from the text is an explicit explanation that Sauron isn't just torturing them for fun and vengeance, he actually wants something from them. And I guess the fact that Finrod is "paying" for different things too - his daring and his information/honour...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
'Here' works just fine for the ending; I like 'now' but can't find a single rhyme for it.
Same here. I like the dichotomy of then/now, but it's a poor rhyme for "sooner".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Luthien v. House Feanor: to play up Curufin's casualness, how about 'Just choose one'?
Heehee! Oh, poor bloke. Yeah, maybe that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
'Land of Woe' - I think 'army' needs to say, because 'force' could easily cover the Ten. I'm happy to lose 'the'.
Fair. Didn't think of that.


WIND - I like this version a lot better! It actually makes sense! And it ties in with the rest of the songs. You're right in that it does more of what it's supposed to do. Definitely stick with this one.

I am starting to get the hang of the melody, so here are the inevitable rhythm nitpicks (and as usual, most are optional, I will let you know if something needs changing):

Quote:
No sound tonight
She only has 3 syllables for that. "Silent night"? Hmm, no, I think better to keep what you have.

Quote:
Dust is swirling over woodland pathway
Shadows deepen under blooming lindens
It comes out to woodLAND pathWAY, and blooMING linDENS.

Quote:
My whole world is like a house in ruins
"Ruins" comes out to 1 syllable, which is doable but a tad awkward. I think it should also sort of rhyme with dark/apart. The rhyme is whatever, no biggie; and if you think the rhythm needs fixing, I propose flipping the placing of the noun: "My whole world is like a ruined house", "like a ravaged home", etc.

Addendum: on a second sing-through, "ruins" actually doesn't stick out that much. It's very doable.

Quote:
And my heart stops beating!
Nice reference!

Quote:
Let my words flow out between us
Bear you back to star-leaved maples
And with your crown of golden locks
All of these lines are technically missing a downbeat.
#1 is not critical, as the stretch fall on "out", which works almost naturally as a two-syllable word.
#2 is more difficult. It needs an extra beat between "back" and "maples".
- Bear you back again to star-leaved maples? (I like this one better than the next)
- Bear you back to star-leavéd maples?

#3: the way it falls in my head, the stretched place is "And", and the extra syllable goes between "and" and "crown". My brain automatically corrects the sentence to "And with your fair crown of golden locks". However, I'm sure that if you read it with a different emphasis initially, it might flow differently, I just can't shake off the rhythm I had initially. If you do change it, I don't think "fair" is the best choice, when there are things like "bright" and "glowing (without your)".

Quote:
You will raise your head and answer me at last:
I am very glad that he doesn't hang his head anymore. It's what Russian!Amarie says, but I just don't like it. He doesn't deserve it. I like raising better; he still answers for his choice, and maybe even regrets his choice, but he's not ashamed of it! Especially if this comes after Truth, where he makes peace with himself.

Quote:
Rushing forth from these forest glades
"From these dark forest glades", maybe?

On the topic of this stanza, I love the whole thing! Yes! Go Amarie!

Quote:
Let me become as the silent trees
I feel like I either have to over-rush "as the", or do weird things with the start of the sentence. Do you think it's possible for her to drop "the"?

Quote:
The mist lies thick o'er woodland pathway
This has the same problem as before, woodLAND pathWAY. Since this ideally rhymes with "lie"... How about "Over woodland pathway a thick mist lies"?

Quote:
The leafy fingers weave their web
Lord, is all this world a lie?
I feel like I am missing syllables again in both lines. Or else not reading them with the intended meter.
- And the leafy fingers weave their webs? [optional 1 syllable in the second half too]

Ah, I think I got the second to work. They just all have to be slow beats, right? But if you wanna follow the quick syllables, how about "Lord, tell me: is all this world a lie"?


Hey, it's growing on me! At least in the translated version.


Crossed since your Wind post.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
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