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Galin · 06-13-2023, 01:55 PM

Possibly foolish questions alert, but concerning The Nature of Middle-Earth text "Concerning Galadriel & Celeborn"

. . . mmm, what is it, exactly

Carl Hostetter explains: "1) manuscript drafting and writing in black nib-pen on Oxford college documents dated 1955, to which Tolkien subsequently gave the title "Concerning Galadriel & Celeborn, and 2) . . ."

Okay, so is the actual text in NOME being characterized as drafting apart from nib-pen writing, with the "whole" being the text that is paraphrased in Unfinished Tales?

This would make sense given the brevity of the NOME text compared to the UT paraphrase, and explain why a seeming quote in the paraphrase does not appear in the NOME text [Christopher Tolkien puts quotes around "but they failed to find the strength" as if it's a quote from the original, but such a quote is not found or noted in the NOME presentation] . . .

The description in Unfinished Tales reads: "The text bearing this title is a short and hasty outline, very roughly composed, which is nonetheless almost the sole narrative source for the events in the West of Middle-earth up to the defeat (. . .) the text is much emended, and it is not always possible to see what belongs to the time of composition of the manuscript and what is indefinitely later."

Anywho, I first assumed (!) that in NOME we were getting the whole text as JRRT wrote it (with emendations being noted), rather than a paraphrase, even though it might cover some of the same territory. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

____

Another NOME question concerning the chapter The Silvan Elves And Silvan Elvish

Section: note 9 states: "The opening of this footnote was previously published at UT: 259. "LR III 363" = LR: 1082". "Thither they returned twice before the Last Alliance": in the contemporary History of Galadriel and Celeborn, upon the revolt in Eregion of the Mirdain at the instigation of Sauron, Galadriel alone passed through Khazad-dum to Lorinand (UT: 237), took up rule, and remained there until she departed to seek Celeborn at Imladris, prior to the Council there (UT: 240) . . ."

But "Thither they returned twice before the Last Alliance" is given in the section Amroth and Nimrodel, dated 1969 or later -- and the subsequent history described in this note is a summation of Concerning Galadriel & Celeborn, which is dated much earlier.

What then is the word "contemporary" referring to?

Granted, in UT this section is preceded by a somewhat vague: "Elsewhere there is one other reference to their movements during those years", but it turns out, that this "elsewhere" is part of the footnote about Oropher, and is indeed characterized in NOME as a late typescript occupying sides of printed Allen and Unwin notices dated 1968.

Or am I misreading that too!

06-13-2023, 01:55 PM	#27
Galin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,031	Possibly foolish questions alert, but concerning The Nature of Middle-Earth text "Concerning Galadriel & Celeborn" . . . mmm, what is it, exactly Carl Hostetter explains: "1) manuscript drafting and writing in black nib-pen on Oxford college documents dated 1955, to which Tolkien subsequently gave the title "Concerning Galadriel & Celeborn, and 2) . . ." Okay, so is the actual text in NOME being characterized as drafting apart from nib-pen writing, with the "whole" being the text that is paraphrased in Unfinished Tales? This would make sense given the brevity of the NOME text compared to the UT paraphrase, and explain why a seeming quote in the paraphrase does not appear in the NOME text [Christopher Tolkien puts quotes around "but they failed to find the strength" as if it's a quote from the original, but such a quote is not found or noted in the NOME presentation] . . . The description in Unfinished Tales reads: "The text bearing this title is a short and hasty outline, very roughly composed, which is nonetheless almost the sole narrative source for the events in the West of Middle-earth up to the defeat (. . .) the text is much emended, and it is not always possible to see what belongs to the time of composition of the manuscript and what is indefinitely later." Anywho, I first assumed (!) that in NOME we were getting the whole text as JRRT wrote it (with emendations being noted), rather than a paraphrase, even though it might cover some of the same territory. But that doesn't seem to be the case. ____ Another NOME question concerning the chapter The Silvan Elves And Silvan Elvish Section: note 9 states: "The opening of this footnote was previously published at UT: 259. "LR III 363" = LR: 1082". "Thither they returned twice before the Last Alliance": in the contemporary History of Galadriel and Celeborn, upon the revolt in Eregion of the Mirdain at the instigation of Sauron, Galadriel alone passed through Khazad-dum to Lorinand (UT: 237), took up rule, and remained there until she departed to seek Celeborn at Imladris, prior to the Council there (UT: 240) . . ." But "Thither they returned twice before the Last Alliance" is given in the section Amroth and Nimrodel, dated 1969 or later -- and the subsequent history described in this note is a summation of Concerning Galadriel & Celeborn, which is dated much earlier. What then is the word "contemporary" referring to? Granted, in UT this section is preceded by a somewhat vague: "Elsewhere there is one other reference to their movements during those years", but it turns out, that this "elsewhere" is part of the footnote about Oropher, and is indeed characterized in NOME as a late typescript occupying sides of printed Allen and Unwin notices dated 1968. Or am I misreading that too!