[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Great Heavens above! If Eru is Tolkien's picture and understanding of God, then I'll be blowed! I don't know what the Catholic religion is, but I hope to goodness that they don't picture God as quite THAT far off.

We do. Or we don't.

I guess it depends on how you think Eru REALLY works in Middle-Earth, and on how God really works in Real life.

Are people here sure that's what Tolkien meant Eru to be? Are you positive that it is a direct parralel, as well as he could make it? I'm not so certain. Anyone in the Christain faith knows that God's greatest thing was to send Jesus to earth and do the most difficult thing in the world for us measly human beings. But Tolkien wrote about Frodo Baggins, a tiny, poor, bewildered hobbit take the burden most of the way - and then even fail in the end. Eru let it happen like that. He didn't send his own son to do it, which he might've had it been a direct comparison.

Ah, but this is intended to be the history of the real world well BEFORE Jesus came to die for us- saving us from a much worse fate than Sauron could have inflicted.

Furthermore, as regards Frodo, yes he was given a very heavy burden. We are all given heavy burdens.

Fail in the end? Of course Frodo failed. Catholicism teaches that we are all imperfect, flawed beings. However, you will note that his QUEST succeeded. The Ring was destroyed.

Divine intervention?

You decide. The results are the same.

Finally, Frodo did receive his reward. And in this life even.

I'm thinking that's more what Tolkien did. He's made very stark differences between God and Eru. . .I don't think he would have done that if he had wanted Eru to be God.

You're thinking? Who are you to know what Tolkien was doing?

I'm don't intend any offence or sarcasm by this, but I am literally asking: how can we know WHAT Tolkien intended unless we go by what he wrote. And what he wrote says that the Lord of the Rings is a fundamentally Catholic work. It's God, therefore, must be a fundamentally Catholic God.

Furthermore, as regards "stark differences" between Eru and God, I am inclined to disagree. I do not think that Eru is nearly as cold or distant as you think, although I will agree that He is not SHOWN as a major player in the books- much the way God is not shown as a major player in the history books, although that does not mean that He was not present.

Any other differences between God and Eru can be put down to YOUR conception of God conflicting with TOLKIEN's conception of God. No one on this earth can truly KNOW God in His entirety, or even incompletely. Therefore, any presentation of God, be it in art, literature, or whatnot, can only be the presentation of what ONE PERSON knows of God.

But he didn't like allegories, so he's not going to write one!

It's not an allegory. There is no single, blatant, behind-the-scenes message. It is, first and foremost, a contrived history of Europe.

And, if it is to be "real and true" history, it must contain the "real and true" God.