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Old 01-26-2005, 11:08 PM   #29
Maédhros
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White Tree

Thanks Aiwendil.

Now regarding the RD-SL-27 issue:
Let me quote the following:
From The Shaping of Middle-Earth: The Quenta
Quote:
To the north of that region is a ford across the river Ascar, near to its joining with Duilwen7 that falls in torrents from the mountains; and that ford is named Sarn-athra,8 the Ford of Stones. This ford the Dwarves must past ere they reached their homes,9 and there Beren fought his last fight, warned of their approach by Melian. In that battle the Green Elves took the Dwarves unawares as they were in the midst of their passage, laden with their plunder; and the Dwarvish chiefs were slain, and well nigh all their host. But Beren took the Nauglafring,10 the Necklace of the Dwarves, whereon was hung the Silmaril; and it is said and sung that Lúthien wearing that necklace and that immortal jewel on her white breast was the vision of greatest beauty and glory that has ever been seen outside the realms of Valinor, and that for a while the Land of the Dead that Live became like a vision of the land of the Gods, and no places have been since so fair, so fruitful, or so filled with light.
Yet Melian warned them ever of the curse that lay upon the treasure and upon the Silmaril. The treasure they had drowned indeed in the river Ascar, and named it anew Rathlorion,
The interesting thing to note here is that at first, the battle in the Ford is across the River Ascar and that the treasure was drowned in that same River. Then JRRT changed the first mention of Ascar to Gelion. Thus we have that the battle took place in the Ford across Gelion and the treasure was drowned in another River called Ascar.
I find it very interesting the fact that JRRT would only change his narrative in the way that at first both of these events ocurred in the same river, and then the fight occurred in one and the drowning in the other. My personal opinion is that JRRT intended to have both things occurred in the same river, but that he forgot to make the second change. CT has another opinion in his Commentary.
In the Tale of Years it is said that the battle took place across the River Ascar as in the Original version of chapter 14 of the Quenta.
I think that it is a slip in the part of JRRT and that he meant rather Gelion.
It is funny but my personal preference is to have the fight as Findegil points out (why take that whole treasure to drown in another river?) but in the end I have to side with CT that JRRT meant that the fight took place in Gelion and the drowning took place in Ascar.

Quote:
§49 "the elfin laughter":
Aiwendil hasitatingly supported the inclusion of the laughing elves; and I equily hasitating support its execlusion.
I don't see the need for it's exclusion. Elves laughing at the dwarves at that situation do not seem out of character from them. After all they were pretty brave in Menegroth and then lost their valour.

Quote:
§51d laughed -> answered:
Maedhros found it diminishing to the charchter of Beren to laugh at Melian. But I disagree to that, or at least I can not see why we should change it.
I guess that I can make the little point that in the Tale, Beren was an Elf and not a Man. To me, the later Beren is a noble character who would not disrespect a maiar like Melian.
Aiwendil, what do you think?
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