[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Oh, it's fine by me– but is it fine by Macalaure? I seem to recall that we made a few uncomplimentary remarks about Mr Ferny...

It was nothing so bad he couldn't read it, and the remarks wouldn't have been needed if he had paid more attention to possible clues.

I don't have Night 5 but here are the rest.

**

Night 6

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I don't have much time toNight. I need to leave in a few hours as I've promised to see some friends in order to complete an RPG campaign we didn't manage to do when we were supposed to, and I won't be back till Morning.

Unless I hear from you soon, I'm just going to send a tentative kill choice to Kit and say you might change it later if you're around. I don't know when you're coming back so I don't want to risk missing a kill.

Brinn sent me your old PM's and I'm just skimming through them. Good job guessing my identity so quickly. I left a few very vague hints in addition to the extensive Frodo speculation, but doubted anyone would see them. And yeah when saying to you on day 1 that this village needs people with an ability to make ploys, I was kind of trying to suggest that if there was someone who could realise I was Frodo, it was you, but I didn't dare to be any more straightforward in case I was wrong about you.

So.

If the ranger doesn't stop us, we have to survive three days. I'm rather sure Mac will get lynched soon, although if we kill Rikae, that might not be the case.
If the ranger ever gets in the way, I suggest we put some hints in our posts about the night kill just in case we need to impersonate the ranger later to save us from the gallows / lure out the real ranger. It's going to be bad if we don't find xem soon & xe gets to reveal.

As for the last day, whenever it is... If we get people to waste their retractions, it's going to be an easy win. One possibility, if we're both alive, would be that we both choose one to accuse & be very sure about, and try to convince other people to follow us & retract. But it's a bit early to talk about it yet.
Let's at least try to avoid sacrificing each other as it's going to be so much easier if we're both alive. Also, days with only three people alive are horrible even as an ordo.

Lari. I have been encouraging the idea of her being Frodo, but her defences look quite honest so I don't know if we can get her lynched. Not without Rikae's contribution, at least. She's been controlling the game.

Mira. If Rikae is left alive, she could be made an easy lynch target.

Berry. I think he's relatively safe to keep around for now.

However, I would like to kill a newbie at some point because although they're all doing well, it would feel kind of unfair to win by trying to manipulate newbies. I doubt we have a newbie ranger, though. Lommy wasn't that transparent (I didn't catch her before her reveal), and I'm not sure a newbie would gamble by not protecting her, either.

Rikae. Is there any role she hasn't tried to impersonate? A thought that occurred to me was that she could be the ranger trying to look as weird as possible in hopes that we would ignore her. She'd definitely be good enough to catch Lommy & protect her before her reveal or gamble.

I wondered already then why she said that aloud because it just didn't seem necessary. You remember when I commented on what Legate said about Frodo wanting to stay low on day 1? It was simply a way for me to say Hello, I'd like to become a wolf! Rikae's comment on that looks like it was just a way for her to ensure the wraiths have something to think about - to make sure Lommy is not our only option. Okay she could have said it also if she's an ordo, but it makes sense if she's the ranger.
She doesn't seem to suspect you at all, of me she's a bit suspicious. Her death wouldn't point at us very much - actually she's the first to start suspecting Legate, so it could be interpreted as a Legwolf wanting to look innocent as long as possible. It could also be argued that she died so Mac's chances of getting lynched would be slimmer.
On the other hand, if she isn't the ranger, she could be protected tonight. But I'd be willing to take a risk. Now there's also a chance Mac is protected.

Legate. I rather didn't kill him. He's so off track and is alright with Mac alive.

Rune. He's been rather quiet but generally innocentish. He'd be a good no trace kill if we wanted one.

Mac. No way I'd like to kill him tonight. Even in the very unlikely case he isn't the cobbler, the village will lynch him if we leave him alive.

I laughed at this comment so much. No, poor Mac, you're not useless! It would've been good, though, if sally had told him his suggestion for night kill was not Frodo (if she did it, I didn't notice). I felt sorry for him when he went defending Greenie the day before yesterday.

Menel. Possible to get lynched at some point I think, especially if we leave Greenie alive too.

Greeny. First we make her lynch Menel. Then we can lynch her. Finds Mac innocent. She doesn't seem too dangerous right now, and we can always argue she's Frodo.

**

Conclusion: I'd like to kill Rikae. It might contribute to suspicions against both Mira and Legate and lessen those against Mac.

Unfortunately I don't have time to wait till Ferny sends his suggestion. Another reason to assume he's Mac: last night we got his suggestion in 10 minutes from his post to the bad popularity cup.

Did any of you try to make her identity known to him? Can we have a reason to assume he knows who we are? Yesterday I said to him I didn't understand his Rikae suggestion, and I hope he realised it was a hint.

-Agan

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I'm going to send Rikae's name to Kit and say you might or might not change it later.
There are very small chances that I get online later - I highly doubt it, but it's not impossible.

See you in the day, then. Good luck.

-Agan

**

Night 7

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Agan! Sorry to leave you all on your lonesome... I just couldn't help it.

I'll make up for it toMorrow.

For now, I need to read the thread properly.

By the way– I notice Sally seems to have some idea that Legate is Ferny. I don't know why, because we were sent Mac's name on Night 1, and I can't imagine Legate doing that.

Oh, and a belated welcome aboard!

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Hey I'm here.

No problem, I understand. I was just getting a bit worried because I know the weather down there isn't quite nice at the moment and such. Also, in last game Strongbow & I were shirriffs and he just disappeared in the middle of the game so I'm a bit paranoid.

I very much doubt Legate is Ferny. He said himself that the cobbler, if not Mac, would be stupid to send in Mac's name. Also, just see how poor Mac tries to tell us things. Remember how he commented on sally's cobbler song?

I've tried to hint twice that I'm a wolf - I said his Rikae suggestion was weird, and yesterday I joked about he being still alive because he forgot to send his name to the wolves. Apparently that's the case as we didn't receive a name last night...
Yesterday he also said that although the cobbler may know some of the wolves, it's unlikely that he knows them all, and therefore he might accidentally vote for them. I don't know if any of you ever gave him the impression that you're wolves, but if you haven't done it, I think you should try, too. It'll be dangerous if he attacks you not knowing who you are.

I believe he attacked me yesterday because he thinks I want to lynch him tomorrow & wants to make me look better if that happens. I'd like to keep him alive, though. I said he should be lynched if we can't come up with any strong suspects, but I think I could go after Legate or Lari or Menel really hard tomorrow, being convinced that one of them is a wolf.

I might be more suspected because of my contribution in the Greenie lynch. I was not the only one who suspected her, though, so I don't know.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I might give it a try, now that the village is running low on the sort of people who would pick up hints like that. It was too risky before, with the likes of Rikae around. I don't think Mac has any idea about me yet.

Well, I'm going to agree that Mac might be Ferny, but then I'm going to push that idea that we should be trying to get a wraith if we can.

Perhaps we should agree on our targets now? I was thinking of going after Menel myself, though probably less aggressively. By the way: Rikae's "wolfchart" is certainly useful.

Who do you want to kill?

Originally Posted by Aganzir

That's one of the reasons I picked Rikae.

Okay.

I could waver between Lari & Legate. At this point of the game I have an excuse to be aggressive and totally ignore the people I don't find very suspicious, but if I manage to lynch yet another innocent in a row, things will probably look worse for me on the last day. Therefore it might be better if you got Menel lynched.
"I'm okay voting him, especially as Greenie turned out to be innocent against all odds, but I still have more doubts about Legate and Lari... Why am I still alive?? Am I so wrong about everything? Aieee!"

I was thinking about Beregond. I doubt, though, that he's the ranger, and it'd be important to get xem soon.

Hmm I think I could suggest the ranger to reveal tomorrow. Just because we need to get a wolf or Ferny or we're going to lose and it'd narrow the field blah blah etc... Then at least we could kill xem next night.

Berry might help frame both Lari and Menel as he expressed some minor suspicions against them. Also, he was very convinced of Legate's innocence. He didn't know what to think about us two.

I'm alright with someone else, too, though.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Oh, I'll be considering Lari, too, so we can compromise if need me... she's said some things that sound so like newbie wolf slips I have to keep reminding myself why she can't be one...

Do you think there's any chance the Ranger is one of the newer players? Because, if not, there's only Legate, Menel and Rune left.

Yes... but I doubt the Ranger would take up the offer toMorrow unless he's under threat... and suggesting that he reveal anyway might make it look like you're trying, well, exactly what you are trying. Maybe you could put it as, "if the Ranger feels there's any chance at all he'll be lynched, he should reveal". Hopefully, if we spread the field reasonably wide, he will feel threatened.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

That sounds good. I could take Legate for my primary target but suspect Lari as well. Then I wouldn't be looked at too hard when one of them dies.

I've been thinking about the day after tomorrow... If Mac is alive, there'll be 3-3 (unless the ranger gets in the way). So, we need one innocent to waste xyr retraction on another innocent, and then we & Ferny can just jump on the bandwagon. I think the best way to do it would be to have a big argument about who the more likely wolf is, and try to convince others to vote the way we think & ask them to retract if need be.
Therefore you could find Legate innocentish and I could forget about Menel or Lari. Do you think that has a chance of succeeding?

Well, could be... Honestly, I have no idea. I have a feeling Rune could be the ranger but it doesn't have anything to back it up.

I know, but I've done it earlier when I've been innocent. If the village doesn't lynch a wraith or Ferny tomorrow, they probably lose. So it's up to the ranger if xe wants to help them by revealing...
I could at least throw the idea there even if I don't pursue it further. People's reactions might always reveal something.

Hmm killing Mira is a possibility, too. I doubt she'll get lynched - the village is concentrating on Lari too much right now.

I'll probably have to do some reading and make a list about people to clear my thoughts at some point... How long are you going to be around now?

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Not a bad plan at all. I was going to not-suspect Legate anyway.

On the other hand, she has been suspected on-and-off– Rikae lists her as "RED" along with Mac– whereas nobody ever seems to have found Beregond suspicious.

I need to get some sleep now (it's late here). I'll be around again in a few hours.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Ok. I could go through the thread during the evening (it's 5pm) and send you a PM, and wake up a bit earlier (like, two hours before the day starts). Do you think you could be online then so we could decide the kill and such?

Originally Posted by Aganzir

A part of the plans
Lari
Legate
Menel. Said he understood Lari's Sagittarius comment on day 1. If he doesn't explain it, he could be accused of being Ferny.
Mac

Not a part of the plans

Mirandir. Finds Lari suspicious. Lari doesn't really think she's guilty. Legate believes one wraith is between her & Mira. Berry thinks she's innocent.

Beregond. Thought Lari looked less suspicious yesterday. Earlier in the day he was a bit suspicious of both her & Menel, though. Lari finds him innocent. Seems to be okay with lynching Mac. Doesn't know what to think of us. Rune was a bit worried about him.

Rune. Lari seems to find him somewhat suspicious, at least at the beginning of the day. Berry finds him innocent. Considered voting for Menel. Thought tomorrow will reveal a lot about Legate & me. I'm afraid he might find me suspicious because of the part I played in Greenie's lynching. Also you bothered him. He seemed to be the most suspicious of Lari & Mira, but wavered on Lari.

I think it goes down between Berry and Rune in the end. I have no idea who the ranger could be, apart from some random feelings I don't want to use as a grounds for killing.

Killing Berry would make me feel better because I rather try to manipulate experienced players than newbies. However Rune might be more dangerous than him. Still, I doubt we're going to be lynched. We are just not suspected enough.

Okay I just got Ferny's suggestion. THANKS A LOT. I would have expected him to know by now who I am. Or then he just wants to express his annoyance about my behaviour... Maybe I should be a bit easier on Mac tomorrow.

And if the cobbler is not Mac, I'm going to kill someone.

I'll go to sleep now. See you before the day starts, I hope.

See what a fuss I made about that Sagittarius comment yet I didn't realise what it meant?

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Good idea... we need an alternative cobbler-candidate. We could argue over whether he's more likely wraith or cobbler.

Beregond is more likely to be protected than Rune, though.

Well, he might be looking for confirmation. He did send in Brinniel's name at one point, though, and I don't think anyone except Rune and Lommy were on to her then.

Same here... but I think it has to be.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Yes. And we should probably find each other quite innocent, and even if we question what the other says, it shouldn't affect our thoughts on each other. That way it's going to be easier tomorrow if all goes well. Of course we could try to win just by laying low and letting the village do the dirty work for us, but it's less fun.

Yeah that's true. And a ranger protection would be very bad for us at this point as it would give the village two known innocents if the ranger revealed.

Last night I had a dream we tried to kill Rikae and Gollum was the ranger and succesfully protected her.

He could have just believed Brinn is an ordo who'd make a good kill. Anyway, should you try to confirm to him that he was right about me? I got the impression he doesn't know who you are yet.

Hmm there was still something I was supposed to say but I don't remember it anymore.

I'll be here till deadline.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I might speculate on whether Ferny could know any of the wraith's identities by now– could he have sent in the names of people he suspected as a test?– etc.

So will I, though I might have to do some chores.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Okay. And it's excusable for you as you were away two days. But you should probably also say something that has to do with Mac and me - it could always be a mere coincidence that you got the testing part right.

Argh who is the ranger? And the protected depends on the ranger... I'm just afraid Berry might be such an easy kill that the ranger has noticed it too.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

He noticed Lommy, I think, the day before she revealed– at least, that's probably why she wasn't protected the next Night. Unless, of course, he was gambling on the wraiths thinking he would protect her, but that would be a pretty silly move under the circumstances.

So we've got either a sharp Ranger or a rather foolish one. I think we need to assume the former– in which case Beregond may be too much of a risk.

Mind you, the Ranger could be protecting yours truly right now, for all we know.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Legate caught Lommy before she revealed.
Rune's behaviour doesn't indicate he had thought of it. He didn't understand why Legate found Brinn's defence weak.
I doubt Menel would have protected Lommy, given that he believed Brinn first.
Berry wasn't sure about who to believe.
Lari wasn't sure either.
Mira didn't really seem to react to the whole thing.

Should we go for Legate? I can always pick another suspect after being baffled for a while. If we assume the ranger had noticed her, Legate is the only one who makes sense.
Also, first Rikae and then he might point at newbie wolves.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Now that you set it out like that, yes, Legate looks like the best bet. He's also probably the most dangerous of the surviving good guys, so I think it's worth a try anyway.

If it's not him, it might be that it's Menel, and he's just playing dumb.

Shall we decide on Legate? We're running out of time.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Let's go for Legate. We can always accuse the newbies. I'll PM the name to Kit.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Good luck!

~Nerwraith.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Good luck to you, too. I'm heading for school shortly after deadline so not sure if I post anything yet.

Let's hope we got it right.

-Mr Aggins, erm, Underhill

**

Night 8

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I have to leave for school now, no time to post until after the exam.

We should probably PM Kit to ask about the ranger's ability to protect herself. It seems likely Lari came up with it only to avoid being killed (if she really could protect herself, it'd be more useful not to say it aloud & have us waste our kill), but checking won't harm us.

I came online really tired and they were all of a sudden planning to lynch you so I might have overreacted a bit. Not that it's anything strange from me at this point of the game, though. And it can always be argued, if need be, that I've never had any problem with voting for my fellows...

The voting went pretty close, although now I probably look somewhat bad for lynching an innocent yet again. I hope it didn't incriminate us too much. But I hope Mac should catch you now.

This is looking quite good.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I'll PM Kit in a moment. Lari may have been telling the truth, and hadn't thought it through.

If Lari can indeed protect herself, how about Mira? It would frame Beregond nicely.

Thanks so much for the save! I could have killed Mac! And I was just about to lead up to my "hint hint" bit when the idiot suddenly voted me.

He'd better get it now.

Still, I think it looked quite innocent of you to try and save me, considering how specious their reasons for voting me were.

*sigh* I can really sympathise with Brinn on Day One.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Could be an option. However, she's probably the most suspected right now, and if she died, people would start looking somewhere else. We might get some attention we don't want to. And there also have to be players who are suspicious enough to justify not suggesting voting for Mac in lack of anything else.

I hope we can get Lari, though. I think Kit would have told her at the beginning if she can protect herself, and she claimed she had asked her one night.

Yeah... I was like No no no it can't end like this it's been going so well grrr come back and retract! and it was scary every time I noticed someone who hadn't voted yet had posted.
You could consider it a compliment, though - he seemed to think you looked so innocent. Or then he wanted to make you look a bit suspicious so no one would be surprised when you didn't die in the night. If that's the case, he failed miserably and should feel sorry.

I hope so. But the village is probably getting paranoid and might soon find anything suspicious. I'm afraid someone will come up with something really incriminating after pondering a while and realising there are not so many suspicious people left anymore...

Considering each other innocent without a doubt tomorrow might be a good thing to do as then it's probably more likely that others will do so as well.
I can be properly around only during the later half of the day (but I don't have to wake up early on Friday so technically I could be here till deadline if need be). However, if you, Mac and me all happen to be online at the same time, we could of course just go and vote for someone so xe'd get three votes first. That's a boring option but easier.
And, well, if we can convince someone to retract for an innocent, it's a sure win.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

True. Note that we can lynch Mac, though, if we need to... as long as we're able to make the kill toNight and toMorrow Night.

...Which brings us back to that pesky Ranger. It would be nice if we could get rid of her now. Just so you know, I PM'd Kit, but she hasn't got back to me yet.

If I'd died, I was going to neg-rep him: "Worst. Cobbler. Ever."

I'm not sure when I'll be able to get online toMorrow– it may not be for very long (family stuff again). Probably early-ish in the Day, and then again lateish.

The problem is Mac, really, or rather getting him to catch on to who we are without anyone else picking it up. At least we're now running out of experienced players.

As long as we kill someone toNight, we can keep right on suspecting Mac toMorrow: "Ferny doesn't matter anymore– we have to get a wraith toDay, look at the numbers", etc.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Oh yes that's true. I hadn't thought so far.

Okay thanks. I wonder what we should do if she can protect herself or Kit won't tell us. She hasn't done that any time earlier, though, so I doubt she can, but still... And if we don't kill her, we can't lynch Mac tomorrow.

Hmm looking at her lists, there are some inconsistencies. In #1022 she said she protected Brinn, Mac, no one, Mac, and me. In her next post she claims she protected Fea before protecting Mac for the first time. At the same time she indicates it happened on night 3 when Nog died.
If she's still alive tomorrow, she could be at least suspected for that.

I'm hoping he catches on my "The cobbler who's afraid of accidentally voting for a wolf, eh?" when I was speaking about his vote for you. Of course if he sends us a name tonight, you could accidentally mention it tomorrow... I've addressed him about his suggestions (or the lack of them) in my first post every day I've been a wolf and I think it's worked. That would probably be the easiest way to convince him if he doesn't know about you already.

Yeah. Let's see how the situation looks tomorrow.

Some thoughts on people.

Lari. Should be killed if possible.

Mira. I suppose she's going after Berry tomorrow. She was apparently suspicious of Lari the day before yesterday but didn't really mention her anymore yesterday (she was barely around then, though). Rune is suspicious of her, and if we try to keep him concentrating on something else than us, Mira might be good to leave alive. While we could frame Berry by killing her, I think she's considered more suspicious than him.

Berry. Finds us innocent. Although his reaction to my complaints about them suspecting you looked innocent, he could be accused of jumping in the bandwagon the cobbler started.

Rune. Considered quite innocent. I wouldn't like to go after him tonight if we can't kill Lari, though, just because the thought of leaving only newbie innocents alive doesn't sound fair. He might be convinced to vote for Mira, though. He's the only one whose reaction to the suspicion against you we haven't seen yet, and I'm a bit worried. He's like Rikae in the sense that I always just wait for him to start suspecting me again.
He doesn't seem like a too big threat for the time being although he expressed some unease about you a few days ago.

Mac. Should be kept alive and rewarded if he does his work well.

I'll go to bed soon, I've only slept some 10 hours during the last two nights and I'm rather tired. I'll be back some 2-1,5 hours before deadline as usual, hope to see you again then.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

First, the news:

1. Yes, Strider can protect himself for one Night.

2. Ferny suggests me as the kill toNight. Either he is checking us out... or yeah, Worst Cobbler Ever...

I made sure to point out that her being alive toMorrow wouldn't prove anything. What about if I raise that point toMorrow and you jump in to defend her? Then she'll probably be sure you're innocent and will protect you again.

Who do you feel like killing now? Beregond? Sort of a pity when Mira's all set to make a case on him... but we could suggest that she was rather clumsily laying the groundwork for getting an innocent Berry lynched, and then her packmate overruled her. Or something like that.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Ouch. I suppose she's going to pick tonight, then, as tomorrow it's so important they get a wolf. Argh I'm annoyed the Sagittarius comment set me off but I didn't realise what it meant even after Menel had come and said he did!

Could be both. You could start complaining about Mac's wish to get you killed tomorrow or something alike?

Okay let's do so. Mac will probably agree with you. Just be careful you don't overdo it because that would be seen as suspicious.
And, if we just get a chance, let's lynch her tomorrow. She'd deserve it, such a nasty ranger, causing us so much headache!

Well he'd be a good enough choice... Especially if we want to leave also others than newbies alive. At least he isn't suspected.
His death could make Mira look more innocent but so what? The other two deaths have pretty much framed her, which was brought up yesterday, so now we can argue the wolves wanted to make a kill that doesn't point at her guilt at all.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Yes... I wonder what kind of hint would be broad enough without being too broad?

There, there... Actually, she's been nice enough to protect the evil side most Nights, so what are you complaining about?

Good thinking. Shall we lock in Berry, then?

By the way– I will have to leave soon after the start of the Day, and won't be back again for quite a while. Also, most annoyingly, I probably won't be around near the DL.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Something like... "The more I think of it, the less I like Mac's suggestion to kill me. It doesn't make sense that he should want to kill one of the people Legate found innocent. Mighty cobblerish." I doubt anyone else would get it. And I can agree. Then at least he should realise it.

Hmm actually according to her list, she protected our side every night, except when she didn't protect anyone.

Let's get him. I can PM Kit.

Okay. I have to leave a few minutes before the day starts, don't know when I'll be back. Depends on how long the exam takes me. Then I'll be around for a few hours and have to leave again, but that won't take so long, and after it I can be online as long as I wish.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Even if Lari for some reason protected Berry tonight, we can win. It's about the same as if Mac was lynched tomorrow - we just need to kill someone in the night and that's it.

Anyway I hope this is our last day, then. Thanks, it's been awesome to wolf with you.

Good luck!

-Agan

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Likewise. Whoever would have thought Frodo Baggins would make such a good wraith?

Good luck!

**

On night 9 there was little more than our decision to kill Lari.