[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I do see your point. All indications are that Tolkien was thinking of the Quendi awakening ca. 13,000 years before the death of the Trees, even if that specific source doesn't confirm the latter date. So Men would need to wake somewhere between VY 850 and 866. 1.VI.A has the Quendi wake in VY 1000, the Finding in 1090, and Men wake in 1100, which is before Melkor is defeated. In 1.XIII.1, the Quendi wake in VY 850 and are found in 865; applying the same ratio means Men would wake about 2/3 of the way through VY 866. 1.XIII.3 has the Great Debate about a VY before the war with Melkor, meaning late VY 866 is a plausible awakening date for Men - just enough time for Melkor to find them and set his plans in motion before he's taken.

End result: Men awaken ca. 10,000 years before the Trees are killed.

But, I'm not going to change the table, because that's a fairly long string of logic. The table records Tolkien's thoughts (or potential thoughts, in the Astronomy version) at various times; it doesn't attempt to make a "final timeline".

That comes next.

hS

I don't know - the First Age lasting c. 14,000 years is still way too long for my taste. While it's true that Tolkien stated that the Ages got progressively shorter as time went on, a jump from the 'First Age = 14,000 years' to the 'Second Age = 3,441 years' is a bit extreme.

Frankly, I much prefer your c. 6,000 years figure in your attempt to devise a 'final' timeline of the First Age. But, after all, that's just my personal preference.




P.S. This may or may not be a good place to share this little tidbit about the Awakening of the Dwarves:

Then Aulë took the Seven Dwarves and laid them to rest under stone in far-sundered places, and beside each he laid his mate, save only beside the Eldest, and he lay alone. And Aulë returned to Valinor and waited long as best he might. But it is not known when Durin or his brethren first awoke, though some think that it was at the time of the departure of the Eldar over sea. - The War of the Jewels, 'The Later Quenta Silmarillion', 'Concerning the Dwarves', pp. 211-2

Which would put the Awakening of the Dwarves in c. VY 870/872 in your recreation of the 'final' timeline scheme (https://docs.google.com/document/d/e..._2clV5l-ki/pub).