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Old 06-06-2016, 06:01 PM   #8
Gothmog, LoB
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Join Date: May 2016
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Gothmog, LoB has just left Hobbiton.
@Zigûr:

I know that letter, the problem I've is actually understanding the concept Tolkien tries to illustrate there. How exactly does 'rebelling against mortality' lead to a desire for power in general, and how the hell does this lead to 'magic' and 'the Machine'?

I really don't get the antagonism between 'external plans or devices' and '(the development of) the inherent inner powers or talents'. Does this mean technology in itself is bad, and how is it that this can be a general rule - both in Tolkien's fictional world as well as in his (apparent) interpretation of our real world?

I'd agree with you that Saruman and his machines and gunpowder sort of can be seen as his attempt to depict the problem of 'the Machine'. But to the degree in which this plot is utilized in Tolkien's finalized works it is actually somewhat of an alien element in the body of his work. He toned down this kind of thing even in the later versions of the Fall of Númenor (which originally included all those references to modern ships and weapons and the like). In that sense it comes off as a rather irritating 'science fiction' element in the story that is very much at odds with the more antiquarian sections of the story.

However, the One Ring and the Rings of Power in general as symbols for this kind of theoretical concept seem to be chosen very poorly because the story never actually connects the One Ring to 'the Machine' or something mechanistic. It seems to be more like a perverted living thing seeing through people and dominating its bearer (all the stuff about the Eye suggests as much) - the actual twisted power it can supposedly grant to a powerful bearer is never actually explored or shown to the reader (outside the letter in which Tolkien actually speculates who might have done what with the Ring, of course). Frodo gives us a glimpse of that, in the end, but we really don't know or learn how the Ring as an instrument of domination on a broader scale could (or did once) work.

Magical rings couldn't be farther away from artifacts one would connect to or interpret as 'machines'. They are very much mystical/magical (even divine) objects if you know your Nordic legends and sagas, not to mention more recent adaptations of those. The whole part of the Ring being evil and a part of Sauron is easy enough to grasp and understand but the point about it being an effective tool of world domination much less so. Yes, if you read all your stuff you'll finally understand that the point of Sauron's plan was to ensnare and enslave specifically the Noldor of Eregion with the Rings of Power he helped them to make (and that this plan failed from the start and everything he did thereafter was just plan B). But what exactly those rings themselves can do, how they grant power or enhance it is completely unclear. That they can preserve stuff and that Nenya and Vilya preserved Lórien and Imladris can be deduced from the text, but what exactly the (evil) power aspect of all this was in detail and day-to-day life is very difficult to even guess. As is the sort of positive 'power-enhancing effect' the One Ring had on Sauron himself. He created the Ring and his very bodily form was (or at that time could be) power and terror. How could the Ring possibly even enhance or help him in this regard?

Not to mention that, as you pointed out, the actual story of the Rings of Power and their creation wasn't covered in any detail in LotR - a version of 'Of the Rings of Power' should have been the most detailed section of the appendices because that was actually the most important part of the entire back story of the novel. One can expect to learn something about those Rings the Lord of the Rings is lord about...

Mortality is a topic that wasn't exactly well handled in LotR. At least no in relation to Gandalf. I remember completely misunderstanding the whole setting during my first read, thinking Gandalf had been sent back essentially as a ghost because of his talk that he was sent back only for a short time - I interpreted that as being sent back from death only until such time as his job was done (Sauron being defeated). In that context it is very easy to actually interpret the final journey into the West as literal death for all those characters because Gandalf would now have to die, too.
And mythology-wise this is clearly not intentional on Tolkien's part.

The nonchalant way in which this happens established the whole topic of death and mortality not exactly as a problem in that novel. After all, some people could just return from death without it being such great a deal.

But I'm not sure if I get this thread off topic with all that rambling.
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