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Old 02-22-2007, 03:09 PM   #253
Raynor
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But this is probably the single most significant event in Middle-earth history, & (after the Creation) the single most significant thing Eru does.
Again, ignoring the continuous appearance of Men, which goes on until the end of Creation. Also, you seem to discard, again, Gandalf reimbodied, or the destruction of the One Ring - without these, none may have seen the end of Sauron's tyranny. You also ignore all the other arguments I have presented on his continuous intervention, without providing a single time a counter-argument or proof. I have already given a refference where the attitude of denying the goodness of Eru is, in this work, the source of evil. You just keep repeating this one statement, oblivious to what I say. It is proving tiresome. May I kindly ask you to review your approach?
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My frustration all along has been with the argument 'Well, the Numenoreans were bad & deserved it.' (which is less of an argument & more of a refusal to think through the implications). Rotting human corpses would have been floating on the ocean. Pieces of bodies. Pieces of babies. Rotting animals.
First of all, considering the magnitude of forces, and that Sauron himself was caught by surprise and that he rose out of the sea depths after he was killed, I would say that no trace of the event, as you describe, would have remained surfaced.

So, we should think about implications? How about the implications of the actions of the numenoreans. You seem intent on vivid description. How would you describe to yourself "spilling of blood and torment and great wickedness, men made sacrifice to Melkor"? Can you depict how a normal Numenorean party of hunting people in M-E would generally go about? How about a casual day in the life of a taken slave? What would be, in your own imaginations, the stages of cruelly slaying people? May I also kindly request that you keep these images to you?

So, I am curious davem, how would you have gone about ending this tragedy? Remember, you have already used anything in your arsenal already. You have used lightnings, even to strike people, even to set the temple on fire. But to no avail. You have sent clouds in the forms of eagles (perhaps eagles themselves in the last day). Nothing. Warnings don't work. The tragedies continue. The power of Sauron increases daily. They set out to attack and possibly destroy the most sacred land, the land of the governors of creation, home to some of your other Children. What do you do davem? And, also, keep in mind that you have given your Children a gift, which you should not take back. You have given them free will. How do you go about? Can they really be saved in any manner while embodied? I truly doubt that; Sauron didn't waste his power for nothing, they were his both mentally and phisically. So? Let's recap: mounting tragedies, attack on Valinor, (most likely) impossibility of saving corrupted Men while still embodied, who, most importantly, wouldn't want to be saved... how do you cut this knot? I am looking forward to your creative opinion.
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The fall of Numenor would have been quite possibly the single most horrible event in the History of Arda.
An ongoing tragedy ends, both in Numenor - and for many people in Middle Earth - why don't we "ask" these what they thought? M-E sees the dawn of a new day, and era, Sauron is diminnished in power, and the numenoreans go "home". What do you think about these implications? How would you solve this with less costs?
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Last edited by Raynor; 02-22-2007 at 03:12 PM.
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