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Nar · 10-07-2002, 11:13 AM

'Talking to yourself'? 'Course not! I think I don't see 'Faerie' in LotR --or here in our minds-- quite the same way you do, but I can't currently articulate any more about what I do see, except that it's both dangerous and endangered.

I think Milton's Paradise Lost is the source for that feeling of Ransom's for the Perelandra Eve, and for her character-- If you haven't read book 9 you should (books 1-2 are also good, but in more of a grand, dark 'halls of Morgoth' way). Perelandra seems to be Paradise Lost with the poet-narrator-reader figure included in the action-- something of a 'fan-fic' for Paradise Lost (please understand I mean that in a good way) -- a working out of the 'oh! If only I'd been there!' reaction, which can be very powerful.

My favorite part of Perelandra was Ransom's first awakening on that floating island (I found the idea of it fascinating) --the way the land moved, his piebald state-- I loved that-- and his thoughts on the berries --'the desire to repeat a pleasurable experience is the root of all evil'. His awe and love for 'Eva' was wonderfully done, like courtly love without the arch mannerisms and self-interest-- courtly love as it should be (I could never stand the idea as it is). She's a great character. She, Lucy and Psyche's 'ugly' sister (I've forgotten her name-- O-something-- been too long since I read 'Til We have Faces') are the only female characters Lewis created and never, in any corner of his imagination, betrayed. All the others some buried part of him hates despite himself and his best intentions.

As to Tom and Goldberry being representations of unfallen 'man and woman' --possibly, but they are also 'other' -- they are also male-land and female-land, as ents are male-forest and entwives are female-forest.

In an unfallen state, are man and male-land the same; are woman and female-land the same? Do you become the world, is that what 'having dominion over all things' really means outside of the influence of sin?

So do you define 'unfallen' as:
man's being one with nature
-- in the image of:
God's being one with all creation, both cherishing all things, and containing all things?

then yes. I think. Maybe. But I'm now wandering far afield from the way I naturally thing about such things!

10-07-2002, 11:13 AM	#45
Nar Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 228	'Talking to yourself'? 'Course not! I think I don't see 'Faerie' in LotR --or here in our minds-- quite the same way you do, but I can't currently articulate any more about what I do see, except that it's both dangerous and endangered. I think Milton's Paradise Lost is the source for that feeling of Ransom's for the Perelandra Eve, and for her character-- If you haven't read book 9 you should (books 1-2 are also good, but in more of a grand, dark 'halls of Morgoth' way). Perelandra seems to be Paradise Lost with the poet-narrator-reader figure included in the action-- something of a 'fan-fic' for Paradise Lost (please understand I mean that in a good way) -- a working out of the 'oh! If only I'd been there!' reaction, which can be very powerful. My favorite part of Perelandra was Ransom's first awakening on that floating island (I found the idea of it fascinating) --the way the land moved, his piebald state-- I loved that-- and his thoughts on the berries --'the desire to repeat a pleasurable experience is the root of all evil'. His awe and love for 'Eva' was wonderfully done, like courtly love without the arch mannerisms and self-interest-- courtly love as it should be (I could never stand the idea as it is). She's a great character. She, Lucy and Psyche's 'ugly' sister (I've forgotten her name-- O-something-- been too long since I read 'Til We have Faces') are the only female characters Lewis created and never, in any corner of his imagination, betrayed. All the others some buried part of him hates despite himself and his best intentions. As to Tom and Goldberry being representations of unfallen 'man and woman' --possibly, but they are also 'other' -- they are also male-land and female-land, as ents are male-forest and entwives are female-forest. In an unfallen state, are man and male-land the same; are woman and female-land the same? Do you become the world, is that what 'having dominion over all things' really means outside of the influence of sin? So do you define 'unfallen' as: man's being one with nature -- in the image of: God's being one with all creation, both cherishing all things, and containing all things? then yes. I think. Maybe. But I'm now wandering far afield from the way I naturally thing about such things!