[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by Belegorn

True he did leave it out, but I do not think that his doing so necessarily means, at least in this case, that the Stewards were not related to Anárion. In Appendix A when we are given the rulers of the Dúnedain kingdoms in exile, the Stewards are clearly written with the Kings under Heirs of Anárion, as regards The Southern Line.

This probably has more to do with the Stewards acting with all the powers of the King rather than any ancestry.

Since when did the other nobles start choosing the Stewards who, "took office with the oath, 'to hold rod and rule in the name of the king, until he shall return.'" [App. A]

The nobles would have had to agree for the Stewards to keep ruling. The Civil Wars in both Arnor and Gondor are proof that the Numenoreans were not always prepared to follow the law.

I'm not sure I get what you mean here. What kind of politics is this? Generally if a Prince wanted to secure himself from rivals he'd destroy the families of all would be rivals. It is known that Pelendur the Steward, for instance "played the chief part" [App. A] in the rejection of Arvedui's claim to the crown and the installment of Eärnil with whom the other Dúnedain approved.

They all had a weak claim to rule as Peneldur made clear when he rejected Arvedui's claim thus not only stopping his clan from claiming the kingship but the other clans who also had a royal lineage but not through the male line.

I think you are confusing the timeline. Earnil's claim was certainly not weak. He was of the House of Anarion. The problem is that Arvedui had a stronger claim.

The political logic is that there are a few Houses with strong claims to the throne like the Prince of Dol Amroth and others. These Houses cannot agree on who should be king, so they agree to let the Steward continue ruling until the matter is resolved. A bit like the crisis Scotland had after the death of the Maid of Norway. They called upon Edward Longshanks to settle the matter.

It is said, "no claimant to the crown could be found who was of pure blood, or whose claim all would allow;" [App. A] and that the Stewards were nearly as pure as the kings. If there were purer houses, and houses of greater nobility, would they not take the station of king? They, like the Stewards, in my opinion were not related to the kings through the male line. Those who may have been descendants through the male line were not pure enough as they, "taken wives not of Númenorean blood." [App. A]

The answer to that is NO. Just, because they were purer, more noble Houses with a better claim does not mean they would have been chosen for the throne. There was enough disagreement that none of the Great Houses like say Dol Amroth could get all the nobility to agree. Consequently it's easier to have a lesser House rule than have another kinslaying.

The reasoning being that the House of Stewards would never be powerful enough to claim the kingship. As things stand now we know that Dol Amroth at least would have seceded and possibly other areas too.

This is because the kings installed them as such and they became hereditary.

The king installed them us such, but it was never intended for them to rule for 1000 years with no king. Gondor Dol Amroth had become virtually independent at this time.

I imagine the other great Houses were content to keep the Stewards, because it was better than a Civil War.

I do not think so. Let's be honest, there were not many claimants anyway, but again, Pelendur made sure that no one in the female line could take the crown when he rejected Arvedui's claim. His argument was not that there was no one to be found in the female line who could take the throne, it was that in keeping with tradition in Gondor, only in the male line were kings taken. There were certainly people of the male line, but as we no they could not be selected because they were too mixed with lesser men.

I never said there were no other claimants, but there were few of them that met the criteria and after Earnur disappeared, there probably was none from the male line.

I think it's possible both were, and possibly all of the noble houses remaining in Gondor with him intermarriage was almost certain to happen.

Possible, but by no means a certainty. The Numenoreans would not have illegitimate children and had a very low birth rate. With the obsession some had about blood purity the royal family would possibly keep marrying back into each other. Numenor had a law forbidding the heir to the throne from marrying a non-descendant of Elros. Gondor may not have had a strict law, but I would imagine it would be the custom.

I do not get your 2 points here. Explain the 2nd one and also explain the first.

"Also to be Prince of Ithilien, the greatest noble after Dol Amroth in the revived Númenórean state of Gondor, soon to be of imperial power and prestige, was not a 'market-garden job' as you term it. Until much had been done by the restored King, the P. of Ithilien would be the resident march-warden of Gondor, in its main eastward outpost - and also would have many duties in rehabilitating the lost territory, and clearing it of outlaws and orc-remnants, not to speak of the dreadful vale of Minas Ithil (Morgul). I did not, naturally, go into details about the way in which Aragorn, as King of Gondor, would govern the realm. But it was clear that there was much fighting, and in the early years of A.'s reign expeditions against enemies in the East. The chief commanders, under the King, would be Faramir and Imrahil; and one of these would normally be a military commander at home in the King's absence. A Númenórean king was monarch, with the power of unquestioned decision in debate; but he governed the realm with the frame of ancient law, of which he was administrator (and interpreter) but not the maker. In all debatable matters of importance domestic, or external, however, even Denethor had a Council, and at least listened to what the Lords of the Fiefs and the Captains of the Forces had to say. Aragorn re-established the Great Council of Gondor, and in that Faramir, who remained by inheritance the Steward (or representative of the King during his absence abroad, or sickness, or between his death and the accession of his heir) would [be] the chief counsellor." [Letter 244, pp. 323-4]

1. The first point is simple. At the time the House of Hurin were raised to Stewards they were still not one of the Great Families. It's only after Aragorn returns that he raises them above all other nobility except the Prince of Dol Amroth. A House with close ties to Anarion would definitely be one of the Great Houses. Just look at the power the Lords of Andunie had.

2. When a group of powerful Houses are all competing for rule, they sometimes let a less powerful House/person rule as a compromise. Usually, because they don't feel the person will ever be a threat (this is part of the reason Hitler was able to come to power).

Say for Instance the Lord of Dol Amroth and the Lord of Calenardhon (fictional Lord) had the two strongest claims through the female line. Both are powerful and important families. The Prince of Dol Amroth does not agree on the Lord of Calenardhon and vice versa. To keep the peace they decide on letting the Steward keep ruling, safe in the knowledge that his claim and power base is too weak to take the throne.

This is a possible reason for why Denethor was bitter that in Gondor the House of Stewards could never take the throne even after a 1000 years.