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Old 04-23-2020, 02:17 AM   #18
Huinesoron
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Huinesoron is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Huinesoron is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Formendacil, you make an excellent point about elves not generally needing a line of succession. I think I knew that intellectually, but I've not really considered the practical consequences.

Since this is the Crazy Theories thread, and spinning off from this discussion, I have a related one:

Turgon was never High King.

Here are the facts, taken from the published Silmarillion:

-When Fingolfin is slain, the succession is clearly stated: "Thus died Fingolfin, High King of the Noldor... and Fingon in sorrow took the lordship of the house of Fingolfin and the kingdom of the Noldor; but his young son Ereinion (who was after named Gil-galad) he sent to the Havens."

-Fingon is referred to as 'Fingon, the High King' (or variants thereof) no less than four times. His title is hammered home by Tolkien.

-When Fingon dies, there is no 'succession' text - Hurin just tells Turgon that he's their Only Hope. Instead, many paragraphs later, we get this: "Now the thought of Morgoth dwelt ever upon Turgon; for Turgon had escaped him, of ail his foes that one whom he most desired to take or to destroy. And that thought troubled him, and marred his victory, for Turgon of the mighty house of Fingolfin was now by right King of all the Noldor; and Morgoth feared and hated the house of Fingolfin, because they had the friendship of Ulmo his foe, and because of the wounds that Fingolfin gave him with his sword."

--So Morgoth sees Turgon as Fingon's successor - but given that the only other Noldorin kingdom at this point is Nargothrond, which didn't even show up to the Nirnaeth, that's hardly surprising. And Morgoth's hatred is framed very much as 'of the House of Fingolfin', not 'of the High King'.

-The only reference I can see that specifically links 'High King' with 'Turgon' is this one: "Then Tuor stood before Turgon son of Fingolfin, High King of the Noldor, and upon the King's right hand there stood Maeglin his sister-son..."

--Does that mean Turgon was High King - or does it mean he was the son of High King Fingolfin? Much like Certain Ambiguous Wings, it could be read either way.

-When Turgon dies, he is not called High King - he is identified only by name. Fingolfin, Fingon, and Gil-Galad all get labelled 'the High King' at their deaths.

-Finally, we have this: "And when the tidings came to Balar of the fall of Gondolin and the death of Turgon, Ereinion Gil-galad son of Fingon was named High King of the Noldor in Middle-earth."

--Yes, that could mean he succeeded the title - but it could also mean that Gil-Galad wasn't acclaimed High King at a time when the majority of the Free Noldor were not only out of his control, but in an unknown location. Between the falls of Nargothrond and Gondolin, the Noldor consisted of: refugees on Balar, mingled with the Sindar (under Gil-Galad); House Feanor, a scattered and vaguely malevolent force (unlikely to answer to Gil-Galad); and Gondolin, a strong force still hidden from everyone (Gil-Galad couldn't order them around even if he wanted to). What would the concept of a High King even mean?

My theory is that the title fell into abeyance for the time between the Nirnaeth and the Fall of Gondolin. Numenorean authors sometimes include Turgon in the list, in the same way that they include Vardamir in their own - adding him makes things tidier. Why not just jump straight to Gil-Galad? Well, we can imagine a story of Earendil playing a part in the coronation, something that confirms Gil-Galad could not have been king before Gondolin fell. Or even just a record - 'When tidings came to Balar' etc.

hS
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