[Galin]

Originally Posted by Findegil

(...) In view of this I wanted to add the fact, that how ever the Narn was traded, it had in Tolkiens view an manish author. (...) Nonthless does that not contradict the point that Mithadan did make: The Introduction of The Adventures of Tom Bombadil provide us with a clear statment, that the Turin Saga was preserved in a númenorean tradition.

Since Elfwine And Dírhaval dates to around 1958, and The Adventures of Tom Bombadil was published in 1962, one might wonder if Tolkien dropped not only Elfwine, but Dírhaval too! But in note 17 to The Shibboleth of Feanor (1968 or later) Tolkien notes that the Silmarillion is not an Eldarin title or work, but a compilation, probably made in Numenor: '... which includes (in prose) the four great tales or lays of the heroes of the Atani, of which 'The Children of Hurin' was probably composed already in Beleriand in the First Age...'

Tolkien's parenthetical note 'in prose' is interesting here, for Dírhaval wrote in verse and his work was (according to the text) rendered into prose by Elfwine. So I would guess that Dírhaval remains along with his version, but the prose version is 'now' possibly made by an unknown Númenórean.

In any case the measure of accuracy of number 14 may be due to its writer (the author of 14), rather than the source, containing only echoes of the lore in the sources available, for whatever reason.

Also the Intorducion said that it "depends on the lore of Rivendell, Elvish and Númenorean". Is that not a statment, that there were Elvish tradtions of the end of the First Age in Rivendell that some Hobbits did learn from?

I agree that it means that (and arguably includes mixed traditions). In the 1960s (for the Second Edition) Tolkien also added that Bilbo had used all the sources available to him in Rivendell 'both living and written'.

The living sources can be Elves, but I wonder how much of the written sources were Elvish. At the end of note 17 to the Shibboleth, Tolkien concludes (concerning the compiled Silmarillion, and the four great tales in prose, and seemingly the account of Feanor and his making of the Silmarils). 'All however are 'Mannish' works'. Also (for another example): 'The cosmogonic myths are Númenórean, blending Elven-lore with human myth and imagination' (note 2, Myths Transformed Text I).

Not that the following necessarily represents the transmission of all texts! but it's interesting that Tolkien's preamble for The Annals of Aman (AAm* version here) states that Rúmil made the Annals: '... and they were held in memory by the Exiles. Those parts which we learned and remembered were thus set down in Númenor before the Shadow fell upon it.'

Thus memory is key (though there was interaction between the Elves of the West and Númenor, for instance, after the fall of Beleriand, in any case). The Grey Annals and Quenta Silmarillion seem to have remained in 'Elfwine mode' compared to this version of Annals of Aman, but we have these interesting comments concerning Elvish memory from The Shibboleth of Feanor as well:

'All peace and all strongholds were at last destroyed by Morgoth; but if any wonder how any lore and treasure was preserved from ruin, it may be answered: of the treasure little was preserved, and the loss of things of beauty great and small is incalculable; but the lore of the Eldar did not depend on perishable records, being stored in the vast houses of their minds. When the Eldar made records in written form, even those that to us would seem voluminous, they did only summarise, as it were, for the use of others whose lore was maybe in other fields of knowledge*, matters which were kept for ever undimmed in intricate detail in their minds.'

*Author's footnote

'And as some insurance against their own death. For books were made only in strong places at a time when death in battle was likely to befall any of the Eldar, but it was not yet believed that Morgoth could ever capture or destroy their fortresses.' JRRT

And with respect to the shape of the world, generally speaking, in my opinion Akallabêth represents a 'mixed' account, with the idea of the World made round (instead of being round from the start) being a Mannish notion.

Although I'm sure some disagree with this last opinion, at least




Edit: I just noticed this interesting change as well, to Quenta Silmarillion (the LQ2 text): 'Of their lives was made the Lay of Leithian, Release from Bondage, which is the longest save one of the songs of [the Noldor >] Númenor concerning the world of old;...'

From: The Last Chapters Of The Quenta Silmarillion, The War Of The Jewels