Haunting Spirit
Posts: 71
Re: The Downfall of Numenor
Forgive me, Mithadan, in the heat of debate I forget the question - one to start the whole affair
you asked why it all went so far – my answer:
Quote:
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The more time passes, the less valar can do - their knowledge increases but meanwhile their power is diminished, and field of choice narrowed.
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is right, but narower then choice of the valar. To light some another corner of the problem, I’ve got to fall back a bit from JRRT and put in some religious and philosophical conceptions. So, here we are:
Obedience and acceptance are virtues, which are God’s gifts. All of the virtues cause joy, which is also God’s gift. God’s creatures are meant to live in joy .Therefore one obedient is joyful. But Human (or any speaking people of JRRT’s (not counting orcs, debate on which is still going on – are them creatures gifted with fea or not)) is creature who is gifted with free will too, and right of choice, and can not be forced to be obedient. The whole meaning of this virtue is lost then, and obedience is virtue no more. still more – one obedient not out of his own free will looses the joy of it. Now one not joyfull is not blessed by the Lord, cause virtues are gone, but their place is not empty – one rejecting God’s gift is a sinner, and vice comes instead.
now back to JRRT. First numenoreans are obedient out of free will – they have the Ban which they do not understand, but, even lacking knowledge, data, they
believe and
accept, and don’t doubt the rightfulness of that, which is ordered by one higher then themselves – Manwe, who is performing God’s – Eru’s will. Therefore they have joy – they are free, and longlived, and happy. Yes, they are tempted to reach it, but God never
tempts, temptetion comes from Melkor, the greater part of who’s will is dissolved in the metter of Arda (which is therefore Arda Marred). To overcome this temptetion is also act of free will and acceptance, and virtue, which brings joy. Now imagine Valar shadowing and misting their land. Reaching Aman becomes impossible. In fact, numenoreans are robbed of their free will, and become obedient by force – there is no way to reach blessed realm. The virtue is gone, and joy is lost, but temptetion remains. Now they wish for something
impossible, which is still more severe sin.
Now the question rises – why, if it was so important, Aman was hidden after the Fall? Answer is simple – It is well known, that men are guests here on earth.But even if Eldar have no knowledge where do they abode afterwords, it is assumed that their souls (fea) are trained here, though purpose of this training is not known. Now, one curled up neatly and comfortably in one’s armchair sipping his/her favorite drinks can not be trained, but degenerates bit by bit. Numenoreans, the mightiest human race ever to be, had no other trials but this ONE Ban. All came easy to them, all was in their reach, and their fea could not have been trained otherwise than via this Ban (some kind of totalgym for their souls
On the other hand, men in middle earth had for their souls plenty of multitude of trials to strenghten them and perfect themselves, so the trial of Aman Opened was needed no more.
Now numenoreans breaking this Ban became worse then orcs (I mean beast-orcs, not eldar or atani tortured by Morgoth), because one falling from a higher level falls deeper on the scale than one standing low from the beginning. They were seduced, but not by Sauron – he was a kind of the last drop, but by their own pride, which is opposite to obedience and acceptance. They started by rejecting the Lord’s gift, and ended up rejecting the Lord himself, wich is severest sin possible to commit. Still they were not punished – harm made to phisical body, hroa, in this case can not be counted as a punishment, but the decision was delayed somehow – here we have their eternal sleep until the day of Doom, which, maybe. is due to Ar-Pharazon’s hesitation in the end, or, still maybe a sign of the great mercy of the Lord who
loves his children anyway. But their land was polluted by them, and had to be destroyed. So we got Atalante instead of Elenna.(cf history of Sodom)
Edited by: HerenIstarion at: 10/7/00 12:09:05 am