[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Nice points, everyone.

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

At the time of Gandalf's capture, Saruman was still the titular head of their order, and Gandalf may have felt that it was simply not his place to act directly against him and remove him from that position without some kind of direct permission. It appears that he was given that permission when he returned from death; indeed, it may have even been a direct order, which he regrets but nonetheless carries out.

Now, yes, this is a very interesting idea, and I like it. In any case, this would be another example of this "not misusing the power", or maybe the most fitting description is "not using the power wilfully", quite similar to Lal's example of Aragorn in Minas Tirith.

Originally Posted by alatar

When Gandalf is taken prisoner in Orthanc, I think that more is going on than what we read. Saruman sets Gandalf away as something of unknown value. He does not destroy Gandalf (even if he could) as Gandalf may have some information, or some other resource, that will be of use to Saruman, who, as we know, is ducking not only the White Council but also the Eye.

Yup, the main value of Gandalf for Saruman was that he hoped he can get the information of the whereabouts of the Ring from him. When Gandalf refused to tell him, Saruman locked him up, I believe rather because that was the only "punishment" he could, or dared to execute at the moment, and not because he would hope to actually get any more information out of him. He probably hoped that maybe something could happen... also an unleashed Gandalf could have been a lot more dangerous than an imprisoned one, for sure. The more I think of it, the more I see Saruman's situation as desperate. It's just fascinating. And Saruman is a great character
Anyway... oh yes, there was one more thing I had in mind in connection to this. When the Black Riders came to Isengard (in the Unfinished Tales, the Hunt for the Ring, in all versions of the story), Saruman tried to use the presence of Gandalf as an "instrument of negotiation" - either to get information from him or to pretend he got information from him (or, in one version, to plead for Gandalf's help).

Originally Posted by alatar

Gandalf, having been in tight spots before, merely accepts his imprisonment. He is not sure if he can escape Orthanc, at least without risking killing Saruman, and although uncomfortable, he still is alive to fight another day. His fate may be to wait out the war, until either Sauron conquers or is vanquished. While he waits, surely he thinks of what he can do to aid the war. Or maybe he knows that his fate is not to rot atop Orthanc, and that this waiting on the sidelines is actually part of the bigger plan.

Indeed. But it's interesting to think what might have happened had Gandalf remained locked up inside Orthanc. Had Sauron launched his attack against the West and crossed the Anduin, he would have ultimately come to Isengard. Maybe Gandalf might have found a way to persuade Saruman... I am entertaining myself by this idea: with the Enemy on move, crossing Anduin and getting closer and closer to Isengard, Gandalf persuades Saruman to join forces with him, make the last effort and make the last stand against Sauron. Oh...

Originally Posted by skip spence

While I agree there was no wizard duel between the two I don't think that Gandalf allowed Saruman to imprison him because he thought it was the right thing to do. The way I see it he simply did not have a choice, not because Saruman was mightier than him, but rather because he was alone in the fastness of Orthanc, surrounded by thousands of armed servants of Saruman. Gandalf the Grey was indeed a deadly foe (and at times the aggressor too, at least against Orcs) but he could not take out armies all by himself.

Well, that's the question. I think it wasn't the necessity. Yes, I mentioned exactly this in my first post. But I believe (as I also outlined up there) it may not have been that hard for Gandalf to use some of his "magic" to get out of Isengard once he dealt with Saruman. Surely had he been determined to escape, at most he could use some "Voice of Gandalf" or unleash some horrible fire which would terrify the inhabitants - especially after he would have announced them that he had defeated their master. But the point is that this is the thing he wouldn't do. And speaking of that, he won't probably attack the guards either (as he said about Sauron, "I pity even his slaves", how more this would apply towards Saruman and some poor Dunlendings). And another thing is the intention - I don't believe Gandalf would do that even if there was only Saruman and no guards (like in the FotR movie).