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Old 05-26-2008, 04:54 AM   #50
skip spence
shadow of a doubt
 
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Back on the streets
Posts: 1,125
skip spence is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.skip spence is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc View Post
And the last thing. Did you realise we probably learn about Uglúk's company already in this chapter? No, I don't mean the Orcs who pursue Fellowship into Lórien - if we are to trust Haldir's words, "neither of them will leave Lórien alive". But he mentions a squad of Orcs going to Moria several days ago. Now these clearly cannot be the Moria Orcs - they could also be the Uruks from Mordor mentioned in the previous chapter; however Uglúk's company also had some Orcs from Moria with them. The argument for these Orcs not being Mordor Orcs would be the direction from which they reputedly came - I would assume Mordor Orcs would come from the east; while these headed northwards across the rivers (?). So, who knows...
I believe you are right that the Orks going to Moria probably were Ugluk and his possé. IMO this charming bunch must also have been responsible for the fire intended to trap the fellowship, having been ordered to do so following the events taking place outside the west gate.

This raises several questions for me. Firstly, who gave them the orders? Sauruman, surely. But there were Orks of Mordor travelling with Ugluk and company too. And I've always assumed that Sauron was behind the warg-attack on the fellowship. Yet the birds who flew over their heads were identified as Saurumans spies. Perhaps the two villains were working together to some degree? Also, how could Sauruman or Sauron get the message across to the east gate so quickly? It is a long way to Moria from Isengard on either side of the mountain range, and further still from Mordor. Sure, both of them had palantirs for far-seeing, but their servants did not, and could therefore not have recieved any orders from a crystal ball. Sauruman certainly had swift birds who could have delivered him the news quickly, but surely not quick enough to send a squad of Uruks to the east gate before the fellowship could pass through Moria. The only answer I can find is that the servants of Sauruman or perhaps Sauron independently ordered the spybirds to cross the mountains and deliver the message to troops already assigned to the area.

And where does the Balrog fit into this. Did it work independently, or was it subject to Sauron's authority? As it chased the fellowship straight down perhaps the only path that could have saved them, as it led to a doorway behind the fire, I find it unlikely the Balrog had anything to do with the 'trap' at the gate. Besides, the idea of a Balrog working for Sauruman is ludicrous. But could Sauron subjugate the Balrog? I think he might be able to, but to me it is more probable that he wasn't even aware of the Balrog's existance.
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Last edited by skip spence; 05-26-2008 at 07:36 AM.
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